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Over powering RF at Repeater Site
- Thread starter BlueDevil
- Start date
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What kind of filtering are you currently using? Is this a commercial site with a lot of RF?
Simple question...very involved answer...
First thing I would do is identify the source. If you don't do that you have no way of knowing what can be done to alleviate it.
This is a single repeater site that is out in the middle of an open farm field. There are some residential power line a few hundred yards away. This site is solar powered and only has the 1 repeater. The repeater is a VXR-7000 with the OEM Vertex flat pack 6 cavity mobile style duplexer operating with a 5.26MHz split. The RF seems to be very broad meaning it is intermittently covering a frequency spread of at least 5-6MHz. Even when taking the repeater out of the site and just operating a mobile radio I am getting S-8 or S-9 signals on multiple different frequencies. I know a better duplexer probably would hurt. I am wondering if I need to consider a circulator/isolator filter. The antenna is a RFS-340 4 element folded dipole in an omni directional orientation about 40ft off the ground.
Cheers,
Brandon
Cheers,
Brandon
jim202
Member
As has already been mentioned, you need to try and locate the source of the broad band noise. It will take a receiver in a mobile driving around to try and find the location with the strongest signal. You have not given any hint as to what band your operating the repeater in. That might help in obtaining comments if we knew if your in the VHF or the UHF segment.
At this point your going to supply additional information for any help from the group here.
There are a number of possible sources of wideband signals, but not knowing the frequency segment your using, we are not going to be able to comment.
At this point your going to supply additional information for any help from the group here.
There are a number of possible sources of wideband signals, but not knowing the frequency segment your using, we are not going to be able to comment.
paulears
Member
First job is an analyser - find out the source. If something is sufficient to desense the input, the analyser should find it quite easily. If it's been stable until recently, it's unlikely to be your output - but you need to see what's going on. Your power amplifier could have started to oscillate, and the filter just not able to filter it all out. Those RF Explorers are pretty cost effective devices.
I am operating in the VHF band. I will try driving around and monitoring those frequencies. That strong of signal I should be able to pickup on my mobile unit however I am not using a 6db antenna 40ft in the air on my vehicle either. Just as an example all of the MURS frequencies are completely drained out by this interference.
Cheers,
Brandon
Cheers,
Brandon
A WAG on my part...is the interference coming from the solar power system?
It doesn't seem to be as I have noticed interference on other radios in the area. I was thinking the same thing. One of the reasons I purchased this charge controller was because it is suppose to have very minimal to no RF interference.
Cheers,
Brandon
Cheers,
Brandon
Here is a short video clip from some testing yesterday afternoon.
https://vimeo.com/143398106
Cheers,
Brandon
https://vimeo.com/143398106
Cheers,
Brandon
mikegilbert
MHz so good
Sounds almost like EMWIN telemetry data. Could also be a local user utilizing a MURS modem.
Narrow Band VHF Data Radio | MURS Channel Data Radios
Narrow Band VHF Data Radio | MURS Channel Data Radios
At the risk of opening up a huge can of worms, what are the frequencies involved?
Have you tried disconnecting the solar charger and just running on the batteries?
Your duplexer is not very good, and is likely a notch-only model. That won't eliminate any interference other than your own transmitter.
What happens if you listen to the receiver with the transmitter disabled? (and with the solar charger disconnected from the panels and battery)
Have you tried disconnecting the solar charger and just running on the batteries?
Your duplexer is not very good, and is likely a notch-only model. That won't eliminate any interference other than your own transmitter.
What happens if you listen to the receiver with the transmitter disabled? (and with the solar charger disconnected from the panels and battery)
K5MPH
Member
Are you getting the same sound from out away from the repeater site........
I made it out to the repeater site today for some additional testing and troubleshooting. I must admit that I do have some egg on my face. This Renogy MPPT (Model MPPT20CC) Charge Controller was hemorrhaging RFI throughout the VHF spectrum. I removed it from the system and all the noise immediately disappeared. I should have checked this as a potential source earlier however I thought that I was purchasing a charge controller that wouldn't have this issue. I am still picking up a little noise in the area that must not be released but is also much less severe than what I was experiencing at the repeater site itself. The best part about all of this is that I learned multiple lessons! Building this repeater has been a great project for me and has taught me a lot. It would have been much easier to just pay someone to do it for me but then I wouldn't get an education. Thanks for everyone's help and input!!
Here are some clips and pictures from my troubleshooting trip this afternoon.
The first few videos I took as I was walking out to the repeater site. You can see and hear the noise/RFI getting stronger as I approach the repeater site with the MPPT Charge Controller still running.
https://vimeo.com/143683602
https://vimeo.com/143683794
https://vimeo.com/143683844
This was taken after the MPPT Charge Controller was completely removed from the system.
https://vimeo.com/143683954
Cheers,
Brandon
The first few videos I took as I was walking out to the repeater site. You can see and hear the noise/RFI getting stronger as I approach the repeater site with the MPPT Charge Controller still running.
https://vimeo.com/143683602
https://vimeo.com/143683794
https://vimeo.com/143683844
This was taken after the MPPT Charge Controller was completely removed from the system.
https://vimeo.com/143683954
Cheers,
Brandon
Well you know, in troubleshooting, the problem always exists in the last place you look. Sometimes I have to slap the forehead but hey you found something and that is what counts.
Anything now a days that controls power via a switching scheme is suspect to me. Motor controllers, power supplies, even those cheap power plugs for cigarette sockets raises my radar right off the bat when I spy them.
Maybe try one of those cheap shunt type solar controllers for a while until you can solve the interference thing from the fancier ones.
Anything now a days that controls power via a switching scheme is suspect to me. Motor controllers, power supplies, even those cheap power plugs for cigarette sockets raises my radar right off the bat when I spy them.
Maybe try one of those cheap shunt type solar controllers for a while until you can solve the interference thing from the fancier ones.
Brandon, depending on the solar 'controller', try some ferrite beads or toroid's on the so called controller battery and solar panel cables. ( actually a switching regulator with a nasty waveform.)
See Palomar Eng. Palomar Engineers
See Palomar Eng. Palomar Engineers
cmdrwill-
I switched out controllers and I am now using the Morningstar ProStar 15 PWM Charge Controller. It appears that it might be giving off just a little bit of RFI but only detectable if I hold my portable radio right up to the charge controller. It is no where near the level of RFI that the Renogy MPPT Charge Controller was producing. However it does seem like there is some noise coming through the repeaters signal so maybe I will try one of these devices.
I switched out controllers and I am now using the Morningstar ProStar 15 PWM Charge Controller. It appears that it might be giving off just a little bit of RFI but only detectable if I hold my portable radio right up to the charge controller. It is no where near the level of RFI that the Renogy MPPT Charge Controller was producing. However it does seem like there is some noise coming through the repeaters signal so maybe I will try one of these devices.
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