Penalties for unlicensed use.

[Soundy]

I would have thought it would be easy to find this info - seems like it would be FAQ material on ic.gc.ca - but apparently it's not, and the search function on the forum is being really flaky on me, so if it's here, it's not coming up.

Anyway... off-roaders use VHF a lot out here (BC south coast), especially since CB is extra-limited in the mountains. And as usual, there are some guys who refuse to get licensed, for whatever reasons, whether tinfoil-hat-based or just can't-be-bothered.

I'm creating a FAQ for our local offroad association, and I'm wanting to know just what the potential consequences are for various "transgressions", like...

Unlicensed ham operation (including using ham bands with only a commercial license, or no license at all).
Unlicensed commercial operation (including commercial channels like LADD and RR with only a ham license, or no license at all).
Use of FRS/GMRS channels on an "unlocked" UHF radio (Chinese HTs, etc.)

My understanding is that to be completely legal, one would need separate radios for using both ham and commercial channels, as commercial sets aren't supposed to be programmed for ham frequencies, and ham sets shouldn't have commercial channels. Naturally it would be unlikely to find someone running two radios like this, but I'm just curious as to the letter-of-the-law... a baseline, as it were.

Of course, it's understood that unlicensed emergency transmission in life-and-limb situations is permitted.

All I was able to find was this post on VHF repeater operation, but even that isn't really clear: http://forums.radioreference.com/ontario/331010-vhf-repeter-fines.html#post2552944

I WAS able to find LOTS of info on potential consequences in the US (fines will into five digits, etc.), and point out to those choosing to remain unlicensed, that the FCC can be quite... enthusiastic, in their enforcement efforts... should they ever venture across the line with their sets.

Of course, links to the actual laws would be greatly appreciated... my Google-foo seems particularly weak, and as I said, IC's website seems to have lots of info on everything BUT consequences.

 

[jwt873]

FWIW, you can use any radio for amateur use as long as the signal is clean and within the specified bandwidth of the frequency you're using. On the other hand, you can't normally use a ham radio for commercial use.

As far as fines go, they're called "Administrative Monetary Penalties"

Industry Canada lays it out in this link.

http://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/smt-gst.nsf/eng/sf10972.html

IC fines aren't quite as stiff as what the FCC sometimes deals out. But note that "installation, operation, or possession of any radio apparatus without a radio license or operation of any radio apparatus without a radio operator certificate where one is required" can result in a $1000.00 fine for the first offense.

 

[Soundy]

No wonder I couldn't find anything... I was looking for "fines", not "administrative monetary penalties". Silly me, I wasn't thinking in Bureaucratese.

Thanks, jwt!

Hmmm, "in plain English". Extremely verbose English! Loquaciousness, thy name is Industry Canada.

Edit: Hmmm that's all monetary penalties... how about things like equipment seizure, jail time, etc.?

 

[n5ims]

Deleted

 

[Soundy]

Deleted

Heh, the notification email showed me the whole post. Thanks for the effort, anyway

One thing we have BC now is the Resource Road channels, a province-wide standardized set of 40 VHF channels for use on forestry and industrial roads, where previously individual companies used their own frequencies. Specific roads and areas are assigned specific channels, and there are maps for the whole province, in addition to signs posted at the start of a road as to what channel is used.

Of course, these are commercial frequencies, outside the ham band, but most off-roaders have them programmed anyway, for safety.... and truck and equipment drivers would prefer not to have a Jeep splattered in their grill...

 

[robertmac]

A lot of this has been discussed on numerous threads. Maybe not the fines reaching up to $50K. In Canada, I believe the only service that does not require a radio operator certificate, or license is CB and FRS/GMRS. But radios must be type accepted for their particular area they are to be used. All others do require one or the other. Unlike Amateur Radio, the Land Mobile radios [including Resource radios] do require a license for the radio. Should also note that unless using a radio that the operator is licensed under the Radiocommunications Act, can also lead to Distracted Driving fines. This is similar to the laws regarding guns. One used to have both a Possession And Acquisition License and have every gun registered. Today, the law is similar to amateur radio, aeronautical and marine services in that one has to have an Operators Certificate but the radios do not have to be licenses. And note, Marine radios are only allowed on large bodies of water. All radios in the Land Mobile or Business bands have to be licensed. Once licensed, then they can be used on frequencies in areas assigned by Industry Canada or with written permission from the business licensed for a particular frequency. That is LADD frequencies. And note that LADD frequencies are not legal to use in southern Alberta. Amateur radios are to be used only on the Amateur bands. In a recent truck inspection in BC, a number of truckers were fined and lost their radios because they were modified to operate out of the Amateur frequencies. Now, an amateur radio operator can legally use a commercial radio if it is designed to be used within the Amateur frequencies without serious modifications. If a commercial radio was not designed to be used within the amateur radio frequencies but has been modified to be used within Amateur frequencies this can only be done and used by an Amateur Radio operator with an Advanced certificate [as per in Canada]. There has been far to much interference caused to legitimate users Amateur, business, Fire, Police, etc.. That is why these off roaders should get licensed if they want to use amateur radio frequencies, or buy a legitimate radio and buy a license from IC, or stick to CB, FRS/GMRS.

 

[Soundy]

A lot of this has been discussed on numerous threads

I figured as much, but the search function is not behaving for me.

 

[SCPD]

Heh, the notification email showed me the whole post. Thanks for the effort, anyway

One thing we have BC now is the Resource Road channels, a province-wide standardized set of 40 VHF channels for use on forestry and industrial roads, where previously individual companies used their own frequencies. Specific roads and areas are assigned specific channels, and there are maps for the whole province, in addition to signs posted at the start of a road as to what channel is used.

Of course, these are commercial frequencies, outside the ham band, but most off-roaders have them programmed anyway, for safety.... and truck and equipment drivers would prefer not to have a Jeep splattered in their grill...

I have several programmable transceivers from FM, P25, DMR
and I use them on FRS,GMRS, LADD, MURS Canada and US
I look at it this way if I don't interfere with anyone I will use that band and frequency

 

[n5ims]

Heh, the notification email showed me the whole post. Thanks for the effort, anyway

One thing we have BC now is the Resource Road channels, a province-wide standardized set of 40 VHF channels for use on forestry and industrial roads, where previously individual companies used their own frequencies. Specific roads and areas are assigned specific channels, and there are maps for the whole province, in addition to signs posted at the start of a road as to what channel is used.

Of course, these are commercial frequencies, outside the ham band, but most off-roaders have them programmed anyway, for safety.... and truck and equipment drivers would prefer not to have a Jeep splattered in their grill...

No problems. I do need to check the forum and poster's location before giving a US based answer to folks outside of the US. That may save everyone some time and trouble!

 

[KE5MC]

Soundy,

I am not sure if Canada has an online resource that records actions take by your equivalent to the FCC.

If they do and its anything like the FCC then the offense is outlined as well as the punitive actions. It a good way to understand how the various laws come together and the resulting consequences. There is nothing subjective in the records.

Mike

 

[beeperboy]

I have several programmable transceivers from FM, P25, DMR
and I use them on FRS,GMRS, LADD, MURS Canada and US
I look at it this way if I don't interfere with anyone I will use that band and frequency

How do you know you aren't interfering? Just because you don't hear anyone complaining on the air, doesn't mean you aren't disrupting somebody's comms miles away. The simplex channel you programmed into your radio, may well be a first responder's licensed repeater input 50 miles away.

There is a reason for rules.

 

[jaspence]

sing frequencies without reguard to others

brechtd, you must feel very wise to post on a public forum and feel safe from discovery. Hope you haven't jammed any emergency traffic unknowingly and caused serious injury or worse.

 

[mciupa]

Seems that people are forgetting the intention of this post.

Let me remind you... Penalties for unlicensed use

If you have answer that has a dollar value attached to it, discuss.....

 

[SCPD]

How do you know you aren't interfering? Just because you don't hear anyone complaining on the air, doesn't mean you aren't disrupting somebody's comms miles away. The simplex channel you programmed into your radio, may well be a first responder's licensed repeater input 50 miles away.

There is a reason for rules.

I doubt first responders use FRS, GMRS ....

 

[thundermedic]

I doubt first responders use FRS, GMRS ....

If they were using marine channels inland it would cause interference. All of them are in use in Alberta.


As for fines, in BC I know of truckers who have had opened HAM radios seized, and with the distracted driving legislation in BC even using a radio will get you a ticket these days. You may want to look up the radiocommunications regulations that talk about interference (non HAMS on HAM frequencies is interference) and different fines that way.

 

[SCPD]

Came across this, more sledders will likely be acquiring radios for the BC/AB Forestry and Basic 10 Channels.

https://youtu.be/3BxtYsIAjgY

 

[BC_Scan]

The other group to keep tabs on in your neck of the woods is the group that does Para gliding off of Mt.Cheam and such, they have been buying inexspensive Icoms and putting them right in the middle of 2M simplex, I was able to look at one of their radios and advise them of licensing & such. It is encumbent of any stakeholder to ensure proper useage and I believe the mechanism is thru a local club and than thru RAC one of the regional representatives.