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Phoenix PD going back to analog?

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kc7vtr

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An interesting message on the ArizonaScanner group that says that Phoenix PD is going back to their analog radios because of many problems with dropouts and such. Anyone hear anything along that line?
 

mike_webb59

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I am visiting here on business and I think the MOT II systems here are hard to lock on to when compared to elsewhere in the country.

What I read seems to indicate that TRS Systems are good for deep penetration (into buildings and structures) over a smaller area (1 - 8 miles) while conventional/repeater systems have larger coverage. I think that Phoenix, for the most part, doesn't need a TRS when compared to a place like Chicago.

I've been basically up and down on 17 from Dunlap to the 101, in the city. While on Dunlap I just barely get the White Mountain station; can't get Phoenix downtown, and if I go one block north of 101 the White Mountain CCs go away.

The other challenge is calling other agencies if they can't hook onto the TRS. Back home, in San Antonio, TX; the city PD and SO are on EDACS/ProVoice/ESK while outlying areas are either on conventional and Analog TRS's. It can be a real cattleplop when agencies try to interoperate without everyone carrying more radios and MDTs. Not unusual for Dry Gulch EMS to arrive and have to arm wrestle with SA EMS because both get dispatched.

I've also seen where TRS have conventional crosspatches for mobiles.

Whatever it will be, I hope it's as active as AZ DPS.
 

USScanner

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I do not see PD going back to analog, adding more towers or tweaking current ones - far more likely. Maybe Motorola will come out with a commander mic with an antenna? The public safety microphone recomendation from Motorola to MCSO sure fixed their problems! The County system is in far worse shape then Phoenix since they cover a larger area with less an adequate coverage. MCSO has VHF to fall back on.
 

AZScanner

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Just read that same message... if they do go back it would be fantastic. I miss the good old days when any cheapie scanner could monitor PPD. Mesa has similar problems with (to quote the helicopter observer's assesment that I overheard one day) "this piece of crap radio" system.

Now, think about that last statement for a moment. The helicopter was doing orbits over my apt complex near Alma School and Southern, at least 100-200 feet off the ground when he said that. If HE couldn't get a good signal, how are those little mic antennas going to?

The problem is not signal strength on PRWN. The towers output plenty of power. The problem is adjacent channel interference. I've found that when I use my attenuator on my scanners, the reception and decoding actually gets better. That tells me there's just too much additional noise out there for the scanner (and their radios) to get a proper signal sync. And, as we all know, no good signal sync on a P25 digital radio = $5000 paperweight.

It's not entirely unheard of for an agency to tell their radio vendor to take their system and shove it either. I would not be surprised if Phoenix tells Motorola to shove this one.

-AZ
 

scanbc780

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What surprises me is that they still insist on paying big bucks on these systems even though its known to be troublesome. Even worse Motorola still insists that they sell them.

Officer and Firefighter safety is #1 and their radios are their lifeblood when they are working and calls for help going unanswered, God forbid this from happening, is going to be nasty if it does.

Hopefully this rebanding issue may resolve some of these problems.
 

WX4JCW

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I dont think rebanding will solve penetration issues, and be thankful they didnt go to a MA/Com system that would have been worse


Sitting here in Casa Grande (at the wal mart DC) can pick up MCSO with 2 bars on the 396T
 
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qball

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scanbc780 said:
What surprises me is that they still insist on paying big bucks on these systems even though its known to be troublesome. Even worse Motorola still insists that they sell them.

Officer and Firefighter safety is #1 and their radios are their lifeblood when they are working and calls for help going unanswered, God forbid this from happening, is going to be nasty if it does.

Hopefully this rebanding issue may resolve some of these problems.

One of the biggest misconceptions is that "these systems" don't work. When you are talking about government having to spend BIG money and the bean counters looking at what that 'extra' site costs, things have tendency to get cut. I know of many systems that were just not doing the trick, but it wasn't the technologies fault! It all boils down to having knowledgeable folks working on the customer side, good negotiations with the manufacturer, and a governing body that stands behind the project and willing to spend the money to get the coverage right. Keep in mind, it is almost a $1,000,000.00 per site.

A lot of folks are willing to sacrifice coverage to get the system cost down. That doesn't add up in the long run. If you want to be conservative, do it somewhere other than the coverage area.
 

hulka

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I will have to back Qball on that one. I bet if you were to take the Big "M"s specs as to how many sites that "Motorola" say you need for the system to work and then look at how many sites that there actually are I would bet that there are a few cut out of there. It may work but not to Motorola's original specs.
 

crypto1

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PRWN and TOPAZ (Mesa) do not have a coverage problem. In regards to the comment from the helicopter observer from Mesa.... The problem for helicopters is that they roam too freely amongst sites. When a radio is in the act of roaming it cannot receive or transmit. The pilots are complaining of not getting on the talkgroup or missing transmissions
 

InlandAZ

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"PRWN and TOPAZ (Mesa) do not have a coverage problem. In regards to the comment from the helicopter observer from Mesa.... "

All I can say is this: Mesa was one of the busiest systems going in the old analog days - I actually had to turn the bank off because it completely dominated the scanner. Then they went digital, and apparently "all criminal elements" left the city - cuz the system is DEAD...

Think what you like, but its sure seems like they have a coverage problem to me...
 

AZScanner

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crypto1 said:
PRWN and TOPAZ (Mesa) do not have a coverage problem. In regards to the comment from the helicopter observer from Mesa.... The problem for helicopters is that they roam too freely amongst sites. When a radio is in the act of roaming it cannot receive or transmit. The pilots are complaining of not getting on the talkgroup or missing transmissions
Well I may be a bit of a dim bulb in regards to such things but maybe someone could have thought of that before spending some ungodly sum of money on a radio system that seems to work marginally at best? Just a thought - I mean really, have the people in charge simply forgotten something called common sense?

If the helo observer can't relay critical information immediately, that is an officer safety concern, and far from a trivial matter. And just why in the hell would a helicopter in low orbit about a mile away from the BofA site need to "roam" anywhere? Something doesn't wash with this answer.

-AZ
 

AZScanner

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InlandAZ said:
"PRWN and TOPAZ (Mesa) do not have a coverage problem. In regards to the comment from the helicopter observer from Mesa.... "

All I can say is this: Mesa was one of the busiest systems going in the old analog days - I actually had to turn the bank off because it completely dominated the scanner. Then they went digital, and apparently "all criminal elements" left the city - cuz the system is DEAD...

Think what you like, but its sure seems like they have a coverage problem to me...
Mesa is actually quite busy. You just have to be in range of one of the sites to receive it, and 800Mhz doesn't go nearly as far as VHF does. The problem is, unless you have been blessed by the reception gods that day, your scanner gets beat to death by interference from other radio systems, including cellular.

Now while I don't expect the same performance from a $500 scanner that you get from a $5000 ASTRO Saber, I'm sure the interference my scanner is affected by is also affecting the agencies radios. It was enough of a problem for PFD to flat out refuse to switch. That right there tells me there are problems that need to be fixed, regardless of what the spin doctors who work on this system have to say.

-AZ
 

InlandAZ

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"Mesa is actually quite busy. You just have to be in range of one of the sites to receive it, and 800Mhz doesn't go nearly as far as VHF does. The problem is, unless you have been blessed by the reception gods that day, your scanner gets beat to death by interference from other radio systems, including cellular."

I was "in range" until they went digital -
 

W2SJW

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I was in Phoenix last year for vacation. The PRWN system came in great where I was staying (The Phoenician).

My biggest mistake was that I put all CC's in the same single bank with the different users in separate sub-groups. The scanner would instantly lock onto PPD, and then I'd never hear Mesa or anybody else south and east of me!

I really regret that way-back when they deployed the system, I read they awarded the supplier contract to EF Johnson. Shoulda went /\/\ all the way...
 
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