• Effective immediately we will be deleting, without notice, any negative threads or posts that deal with the use of encryption and streaming of scanner audio.

    We've noticed a huge increase in rants and negative posts that revolve around agencies going to encryption due to the broadcasting of scanner audio on the internet. It's now worn out and continues to be the same recycled rants. These rants hijack the threads and derail the conversation. They no longer have a place anywhere on this forum other than in the designated threads in the Rants forum in the Tavern.

    If you violate these guidelines your post will be deleted without notice and an infraction will be issued. We are not against discussion of this issue. You just need to do it in the right place. For example:
    https://forums.radioreference.com/rants/224104-official-thread-live-audio-feeds-scanners-wait-encryption.html

Police scanners should be ILLEGAL PERIOD

n1das

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The airwaves are public and people are more than welcome to listen to me all they want to on their scanners. They will not be able to hear my local non-ham radio communications with family and friends.

I abandoned GMRS/FRS and MURS and moved my local on-site simplex radio communications with family and friends to digital radios on 900MHz. We use Motorola DTR and DLR series 900MHz FHSS digital on-site business radios. They are 100% digital and work excellent, particularly inside buildings. They are capable of outperforming 4W UHF Part 90 portables on simplex. They are not monitorable on any scanner due to the VSELP digital and FHSS (frequency hopping spread spectrum) modulation and nor will they ever be in the future due to the FHSS. The only inexpensive and practical way to monitor these radios is with another DTR or DLR radio, AND it has to be programmed to the same frequency hopset and public group ID. I use Private Groups instead of Public Group mode to lock out all other DTR and DLR radios that aren't members of my Private Group. While technically not encrypted, they can be made VERY secure by security through obscurity. Given that they are radios and transmit on the public airwaves, I don't actually expect privacy because such an expectation is not reasonable, nor is there any privacy implied whatsoever. The one thing that is certain is no "police scanners" can hear them at all.

Frequency-hopping spread spectrum - Wikipedia

Scan me all you want to with your scanners because there won't be anything to hear from my non-ham local on-site communications with family and friends on 900MHz. :)
 
Last edited:

Linkero

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Sep 5, 2018
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97
Right but some departments rent radios to local media outlets. As for me, I changed my mind I feel there's a whole lot of privacy invasion with scanners and I think public safety ops should be closed just like they are on (most) of the other side of the pond.

Just had to point out that one small word there.....

I don't think the threat from scanner users is as serious as you may think.
 

Signal-Zero

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Dammit I forgot my password to log into that system again. I think my password was @$Scl0wn but it’s not working. Ugh.


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n1das

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LOL, ban all scanners. Then send the monitoring vans around to sniff out the local oscillator (LO) emissions from scanners that are still in use by the public to enforce the ban. Not likely to happen fortunately because it would set dangerous and grave legal precedents and fail numerous constitutional tests.

On a more serious note, I happened to notice a new FCC certification granted within the last few days to Motorola for an 800MHz portable. It is for a Motorola MTP3550/3500 TETRA portable. The TETRA capabilities are for use outside the USA. Imagine that, a TETRA radio with FCC certification.
FCC ID AZ489FT5876 2-Way Portable Radio (with Bluetooth and Bluetooth LE) by Motorola Solutions, Inc.

Deploy TETRA radio systems nationwide in the USA on all public safety radio systems instead of P25. That means more scanning public safety radio communications in the USA. It won't matter that scanners still exist. Not that I want that to happen though.
 

kb7gjy

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Bonners Ferry, Idaho
Shhh.. Dont tell him that in many states you can look up court records on people.

Lets repeal the FOIA

Make it illegal to ever publish callsigns and frequencies used.

I will say the same thing I do when people talk about firearms and Europe.. If it is so great. Why are you still here?
 

n1das

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Nashua, NH
LOL, ban all scanners. Then send the monitoring vans around to sniff out the local oscillator (LO) emissions from scanners that are still in use by the public to enforce the ban. Not likely to happen fortunately because it would set dangerous and grave legal precedents and fail numerous constitutional tests.

On a more serious note, I happened to notice a new FCC certification granted within the last few days to Motorola for an 800MHz portable. It is for a Motorola MTP3550/3500 TETRA portable. The TETRA capabilities are for use outside the USA. Imagine that, a TETRA radio with FCC certification.
FCC ID AZ489FT5876 2-Way Portable Radio (with Bluetooth and Bluetooth LE) by Motorola Solutions, Inc.

Deploy TETRA radio systems nationwide in the USA on all public safety radio systems instead of P25. That means more scanning public safety radio communications in the USA. It won't matter that scanners still exist. Not that I want that to happen though.
EDIT: Deploy TETRA radio systems nationwide in the USA on all public safety radio systems instead of P25. That means NO more scanning public safety radio communications in the USA. It won't matter that scanners still exist. Not that I want that to happen though.

LOL, don't listen to anything I wouldn't listen to. :)
 

scannerizer

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Bryn-Mawr/Skyway Area
I was just watching a guy on YouTube from the UK talking about TETRA. He said you can have a Tetra radio (like the popular MTH800) as long as its on DMO. There will also never be anything like a TETRA scanner.
 

n1das

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Feb 17, 2003
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Nashua, NH
DSD+ software supposedly will decode TETRA. I haven't used DSD+ in a long time. The last time I used DSD+ was several years ago where I decoded DMR,, P25 (Phase 1), and NXDN96 and NXDN48.

I don't expect there will be a TETRA scanner anytime soon. I'll have some real TETRA radios instead. They would be fun to experiment with on 70cm Ham.
 

MTS2000des

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Cobb County, GA Stadium Crime Zone
EDIT: Deploy TETRA radio systems nationwide in the USA on all public safety radio systems instead of P25. That means NO more scanning public safety radio communications in the USA. It won't matter that scanners still exist. Not that I want that to happen though.
TETRA, old technology that will be sunsetted over the next few years in favor of LTE/5G in the EU. The Airwave network is going LTE eventually, looks like 2024 is the date when MSI will replace TETRA with Kodiak PTT over LTE in the U, at least according to this article.

LTE/5G and First NET will make scanning receivers, DSD dongles included, pretty much useless. End to end encryption, cellular topology, mean the true end of scanning anyone that migrates to them. What is the solution then? Require local PSAPs to make their First Net/PTToLTE console presence talkgroups publicly available?
 

RFI-EMI-GUY

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Not to offend anyone, but I now think scanning is complete nonsense! Look at countries like Germany - they don't allow people to listen to emergency services on a scanner going as far as to build an encrypted network to make sure NO ONE can listen.

Why can't the US and Canada do the same? Build P-25 networks that are fully encrypted and make it a FEDERAL crime to listen in to emergency services like countries like the UK and aforementioned Germany.

NOT GETTING ANYONE IN TROUBLE. Just saying my $0.02 for the day.
What is your opinion on police body cameras and members of public videoing police in action. Is that complete nonsense? Should it be banned?

Move along folks nothing to see here.

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RFI-EMI-GUY

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Dec 22, 2013
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TETRA, old technology that will be sunsetted over the next few years in favor of LTE/5G in the EU. The Airwave network is going LTE eventually, looks like 2024 is the date when MSI will replace TETRA with Kodiak PTT over LTE in the U, at least according to this article.

LTE/5G and First NET will make scanning receivers, DSD dongles included, pretty much useless. End to end encryption, cellular topology, mean the true end of scanning anyone that migrates to them. What is the solution then? Require local PSAPs to make their First Net/PTToLTE console presence talkgroups publicly available?
My Predictions:

I think scanning will move completely underground. A cadre of elite hackers, some possibly from this group , will crack the encryption of these systems and the information will be either leaked or sold to the media depending on whose ox is being gored. The software tools will eventually leak out to a wider group.

On the hobbyists side, I see a place for network of sophisticated receiving devices to detect public safety radio uplink and LO emenations and present them on a moving map. You will be able to see real time movement of police and detectives throughout your town. When they converge at a location other than a donut shop, you will get an alert.

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mule1075

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Jan 20, 2003
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Washington Pennsylvania
My Predictions:

I think scanning will move completely underground. A cadre of elite hackers, some possibly from this group , will crack the encryption of these systems and the information will be either leaked or sold to the media depending on whose ox is being gored. The software tools will eventually leak out to a wider group.

On the hobbyists side, I see a place for network of sophisticated receiving devices to detect public safety radio uplink and LO emenations and present them on a moving map. You will be able to see real time movement of police and detectives throughout your town. When they converge at a location other than a donut shop, you will get an alert.

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Keep Dreaming.
 

Signal-Zero

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Because it’s like giving money to the guy standing at the intersection holding the sign....you know they are not going to buy food and instead will buy drugs or alcohol with the dollar you just gave, but you still feed the troll.


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