Possible to create private VHF talkgroup?

[JB1991]

Hey guys, several fellow firefighters and myself has various Motorola mobile VHF's installed in our POV's. Our county does not provide us a special channel to talk on, but we are interested in trying to figure something out...

So what I am wondering, is it possible to setup a private talkgroup? Probably would be looking at a repeater and a good enough size antenna, but as far as legality goes, would this be legal? I realize FCC has got their fingers up their butt, but no point in getting fined for anything.

Alternatively, we all have 100-120w mobile radios, with about 3 foot antennas, how much of a range could we get (approximately) if we were to just program a random frequency?

Anywoos, thinking out loud here, please let me know if you have any suggestions.

-JB

 

[mass-man]

Beyond incorrect nomenclature, communicating on a frequency for which you are not licensed by the FCC could indeed have you fined, and quite possibly the license for your FD or city revoked. They don't take that kind of thing lightly! What you want is not a private talkgroup, but a new, simplex, car-to-car frequency. I would check with whomever is responsible for the license and determine if every frequency is being used. Pretty iffy stuff you are talking.

 

[JB1991]

Beyond incorrect nomenclature, communicating on a frequency for which you are not licensed by the FCC could indeed have you fined, and quite possibly the license for your FD or city revoked. They don't take that kind of thing lightly! What you want is not a private talkgroup, but a new, simplex, car-to-car frequency. I would check with whomever is responsible for the license and determine if every frequency is being used. Pretty iffy stuff you are talking.

Well its County that manages everything, but our chief is also the Fire Marshall, so he might be able to work something out...

Its either this or the possibility of doing CB radios after they have been tuned/whipped. Don't get the wrong impression of what I am trying to do here, because I don't know these things hence the reason I request information from some of the smarter people in the crowd.

 

[kb5udf]

Ideas

Many states, as I recall, have FCC assigned common VHF channels for Fire and LEO use. You should
consider going this route and check on the legality of it, which SUSPECT would be fine if used for actual duty related matters. If you are trying to create a CB channel for personal use, that I suspect, would not be legit on these common fire frequencies.

If you and your buds are running roughly 100watt vhf mobiles, with what sounds like 3db gain 5/8 wave
mobile antennas, should cover most cities easily car to car, and a good chunk of a county as well.

As for who you should check with, a could place to start would be your counties radio/911/ emergency management office, assuming they are the ones who manage radios.

 

[Tech792]

Your particular fire company could apply for their own license on a business frequency. Many have done that out this way.

 

[mass-man]

And yes, a CB might be a great way to go. Sounds like you guys just want a freq where you can find each other and exchange info, maybe not so related to work. No need to tweak or tune a CB...just put an antenna on the vehicle and the radio in your vehicles and away you go...the good old fashioned 102 inch whip will give you the best bang for your buck when it comes to range. That way you are not involving your County, or their radios or anything like that...the licenses for fire and police systems say specifically for use in fire fighting or protection of citizens or something like that. Don't think you wann be defending yourselves against that one. I know my son and his buddies had regular CB radios and the whip on their vehicles, pickup trucks, etc. and could talk quite a distance on a quiet CB channel. Good luck

 

[JB1991]

And yes, a CB might be a great way to go. Sounds like you guys just want a freq where you can find each other and exchange info, maybe not so related to work. No need to tweak or tune a CB...just put an antenna on the vehicle and the radio in your vehicles and away you go...the good old fashioned 102 inch whip will give you the best bang for your buck when it comes to range. That way you are not involving your County, or their radios or anything like that...the licenses for fire and police systems say specifically for use in fire fighting or protection of citizens or something like that. Don't think you wann be defending yourselves against that one. I know my son and his buddies had regular CB radios and the whip on their vehicles, pickup trucks, etc. and could talk quite a distance on a quiet CB channel. Good luck

Okay thanks bud

 

[kb0zgy]

You might also check in to having the murs channels programed in to you radios. The only thing is I think you are limited to like 5watts output. Those channels can be used by anyone, they are like a vhf cb channels.

 

[JB1991]

I have never heard of MURS, but I have been doing some reading on it since you've brought it up to my attention. I will try to see how well this works this evening, I have access to all the hardware and software to program my GP300's to be able to test easier.

Thanks!

 

[SM166]

as stated above the fire company can get a license on an adjacent business frequency is not hard, find a freq set it up in your GP300 or set a bunch up in a scanner and see(hear) who on it, if you decide on a freq check it thru the FCC data base to see where the other users are - its ok to share the channel with other users but the farther away they are the less interference to each other; MURS is use around here by local FF 5 watts does a good enough for them no license, thier are some PD & FD's even have business channels in thier 'offical' radios - and for the radio police, so what, 20 years and no problems IN case some one starts a thread about - you cant do that type of tread

 

[stevelton]

you could always get your ham radio license.

Most motorola VHF radios can be tuned to the 2 meter ham band. A friend of mine has a 110w Motorola Spectra he is using fine on both 156mHz business frequency and 146.52 2 meter frequency.

You would have to take the test, and so would any of your friends who wanted to talk on there, but then you have access to all the 2 meter repeaters in your area, or can then pick a random 2 meter simplex frequency and do it that way.

Its really not that hard.
Steven

 

[K9WG]

you could always get your ham radio license.

Most motorola VHF radios can be tuned to the 2 meter ham band. A friend of mine has a 110w Motorola Spectra he is using fine on both 156mHz business frequency and 146.52 2 meter frequency.

You would have to take the test, and so would any of your friends who wanted to talk on there, but then you have access to all the 2 meter repeaters in your area, or can then pick a random 2 meter simplex frequency and do it that way.

Its really not that hard.
Steven

But they would NOT be able to talk "business" on them. It sounds like they a tactical frequency. Ham radio could only be used for non fire department chit-chat.

 

[Mtnrider]

You could also check with the local radio dealer or whom ever maintains your system. they might have a VHF repeater on the air there willing to rent space on. No license to worry about and NO FCC crawling around. Of course if you dont own the radios i would get permission for whatever gets put in. I dont see MURS working because i am sure the radios wont get turned down to 5 watts and thats whats going on around here. Random radio people selling 45 watts and no license. Then people getting pissed because Your "on there freq" great comedy over the scanner

 

[kikito]

Alternatively, we all have 100-120w mobile radios, with about 3 foot antennas, how much of a range could we get (approximately) if we were to just program a random frequency?

Anywoos, thinking out loud here, please let me know if you have any suggestions.

-JB

Have you guys tried using the MURS frequencies? If anything to test for range and figure out if you really need a repeater and such.

 

[stevelton]

Well, I guess the OP needs to clarify what they are needing a frequnecy for, private chit chat or Fire business.
The way I read it, they want a "private channel" to talk to other fire guys who have VHF radios in their POV's.
I didnt see anything in there about talking to the other fire trucks in addition to the POV's
Steven

 

[K9WG]

I was going by this:

Our county does not provide us a special channel to talk on, but we are interested in trying to figure something out...

 

[canav844]

But they would NOT be able to talk "business" on them. It sounds like they a tactical frequency. Ham radio could only be used for non fire department chit-chat.

And if we're talking about doing it legal they'd need different radios (Part 95) to legally use MURS and they'd be in equal legal trouble if they were using 40-100wat CB radios. But if they just want a place to chit chat (spend enough time around the firehouse and you're friends not just coworkers) when they're not working then HAM would be perfect though not "private", otherwise the best option really is to go and get a simplex/talkaround frequency under the FCC license of the FD and use it for FD purposes. Or perhaps both would be more appropriate each serving their different uses.

All of this though does require the OP reading this and making a decision, or better describing what the use would be not who the use would be .

 

[chrismol1]

You should really talk to the Chief before messing around with the radios

 

[mjthomas59]

In Missouri we have fireground channels or "command" channels. They are assigned Command A-Command J. They are normally used for on-scene communication, but in all reality the only channel anyone uses is Command A. If your State has something like this your Fire Department is very likely already licensed to use them. If they don't have their own license the County likely has a Memorandum of Understanding with the State Fire Marshalls office to use these frequencies. While I wouldn't use them to talk about where you all are going to have drinks that night, they could be used to talk back and forth amongst one another in a professional manner.

Using CB might get you a mile or two of range if you keep the power legal and even that isn't something I would say would be dependable.

For personal communication, as others said, get your HAM Technician License. I just got mine by only studying the exam question pool (like 350 questions). Took a few weeks but got it taken care of. There are several HAM Repeaters in the area and I can reliably cover 4 counties with a 50 watt radio using the repeaters. In most states the amateur repeaters are also associated with your EMA offices and can be used in emergencies when primary communications fail.

 

[mjthomas59]

Just wanted to add this link: Statewide/Common Scanner Frequencies and Radio Frequency Reference

This shows a list of about 8 channels which appear to be fireground channels. Again without knowing what exactly you are wanting to do no one can say for certain if it would be ok if you use these. If you want a channel to chat about your weekend on then you are best looking into Amateur Radio. If you want a channel to talk fire stuff these would probably work.

The key word "harmful interferance". Dont cause it and its highly unlikely the FCC will say anything anyway.