Privacy?

[iMONITOR]

One of my favorites...

“Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't after you.”
― Joseph Heller, Catch-22

This is a good read...

Stop Worrying About Privacy, Start Caring About Identity
https://www.wired.com/insights/2013/07/stop-worrying-about-privacy-and-start-caring-about-identity/

 

[GROL]

As demonstrated by the idiots that stole my radio. And left the control head sitting up on the dash in plain sight...



Yet you have your call sign splattered all over an internet forum open to anyone...



I'm the same age as you and I refuse to succumb to the paranoia that seems to afflict the greater portion of our population today.



You know a lot of these shows are scripted for more drama and may not represent the absolute truth? I would take anything I see on reality TV with a grain of salt and would filter it well.

I was interested in sharing what I think to be an unnecessary risk. Some risks are necessary, such as driving to work. That puts us at a great deal of potential danger each time. Displaying my callsign on my car is not necessary for anything I do. I chose not to assume that risk

My callsign isn't splattered all over the back of my car. We were discussing the security concerns regarding the display of a HAM callsign. It is true that my callsign is on the internet, but people in public that see me will not even know I have a HAM license, or least of all that it is on the internet.

The shows we watch on ID are true stories, told with the support of the people involved. They include the detectives and forensics investigators involved in the case during the show, as well as witnesses and family. You can find the stories they cover in past news articles. I have done so a few times wanting to learn more about the case. Regardless if you think the shows are true or not, the lessons about personal security are still important.

Watching the shows, you see how if the victim had done this or that, they may still be alive. They may not be with us any longer, but their circumstances can educate us. This is one of the reasons why their family members like to tell their stories on these shows, so that others can learn. You sometimes hear them say things like, if telling my son's story can save one life, then his death was not in vane.

Just because I am cautious, that doesn't mean I am paranoid. I feel more relaxed in daily life, partly because I am very cautious. I don't worry, but I observe and avoid. I get comfort from being cautious. My wife and daughter have the same attitude.

My daughter strongly believes she avoided a potential abduction when she was young.
We had warned her about predators and discussed the does, and don'ts many times. When she was approached by a man that made her nervous, she shouted out "Hey dad, wait up!". The man turned around and left. I wasn't even there, but she was prepared enough to avoid a potential bad situation. She wasn't in what you would think of as a risky area. It was very public with a lot of people around. You may say she was paranoid because of us talking to her, but how can we know if that man had good or bad intentions. If you try to suggest to her it was not a bad situation, she will cut you off right quick and tell you that you are wrong. That was about 25 years ago, now she is better prepared than we were to teach her own daughter about personal safety.

 

[GROL]

One of my favorites...

“Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't after you.”
― Joseph Heller, Catch-22

This is a good read...

Stop Worrying About Privacy, Start Caring About Identity
https://www.wired.com/insights/2013/07/stop-worrying-about-privacy-and-start-caring-about-identity/

One of my favorites too!

 

[GROL]

My 93yo mother was worried that they were going to harvest her organs at the local hospital. I had to remind her that none of them worked well enough to bother.

Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk

Now that's funny! Thanks for sharing. I'll l have to figure out how to re-tell that one.

 

[GROL]

then i guess you are not 92.

Keep 'em coming. Also funny. Nice quip.

 

[jhooten]

One of my favorites...

“Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't after you.”
― Joseph Heller, Catch-22

From the movie “Strange Days”

“The issue isn't whether you're paranoid, but whether you're paranoid enough.”

 

[Lauri-CoyoteFrostbite]

.
My grandfather (SK) flew as the lead bombardier on many of his 30 missions** in the 8th Air Force. He couldn't talk about his experiences to someone like me- someone that never experienced anything like it. Not that he wouldn't, but there are somethings that can only be shared with others of similar experiences.
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Often I would sit quietly around some corner, out of sight, listening to him, my uncles-my father (Vietnam combat aviator) speaking in low tones, often in short sentences that could trail off in some remembrance. I knew I could never, ever be a part of that, so I listened from from darkned room corners.
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My grandfather knew I was fascinated by their stories, but could never bring himself to talk to me about them. He had a great sense of humour, and on one of my visits he gave me a copy of Catch-22.
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"It wasn't exactly like this, but somethings in life we have to laugh at or go crazy" he said---
"I think you'll like this story. If you see a little piece of me or your dad in there, then maybe you'll understand us better."
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I've read it four times
.
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There are so many quotable lines from the wisdom of Joseph Heller. But here is one, actually in keeping with this topic... on paranoia:

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“There were too many dangers for Yossarian to keep track of. There was Hitler, Mussolini and Tojo, for example, and they were all out to kill him."
.
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But this captured the whole essence of the book, and maybe it was the message he want'ed me to have;

".........Yossarian was a lead bombardier who had been demoted because he no longer gave a damn whether he missed or not. He had decided to live forever or die in the attempt, and his only mission each time he went up was to come down alive.”
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.
Lauri

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_______________________________________________________________________
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**He turned 21 shortly before his last mission. By that time he was had been awarded the Distinguish Flying Cross and the Air Metal with 4 Oak Leaf clusters- how can the average 20-something today, or Me, relate to that?
He went on to fly B36's in the the new Strategic Air Command (SAC)- as the 'observer" - I have joked with my father that he had his finger on one of the most awesome weapon of all time- a 20 megaton H-Bomb......
He retired an AF colonel, like my father.
.
___________________________________________________________
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[GROL]

.
My grandfather (SK) flew as the lead bombardier on many of his 30 missions** in the 8th Air Force. He couldn't talk about his experiences to someone like me- someone that never experienced anything like it. Not that he wouldn't, but there are somethings that can only be shared with others of similar experiences.
.
Often I would sit quietly around some corner, out of sight, listening to him, my uncles-my father (Vietnam combat aviator) speaking in low tones, often in short sentences that could trail off in some remembrance. I knew I could never, ever be a part of that, so I listened from from darkned room corners.
.
My grandfather knew I was fascinated by their stories, but could never bring himself to talk to me about them. He had a great sense of humour, and on one of my visits he gave me a copy of Catch-22.
.
.
"It wasn't exactly like this, but somethings in life we have to laugh at or go crazy" he said---
"I think you'll like this story. If you see a little piece of me or your dad in there, then maybe you'll understand us better."
.
.
I've read it four times
.
.
There are so many quotable lines from the wisdom of Joseph Heller. But here is one, actually in keeping with this topic... on paranoia:

.
“There were too many dangers for Yossarian to keep track of. There was Hitler, Mussolini and Tojo, for example, and they were all out to kill him."
.
.
But this captured the whole essence of the book, and maybe it was the message he want'ed me to have;

".........Yossarian was a lead bombardier who had been demoted because he no longer gave a damn whether he missed or not. He had decided to live forever or die in the attempt, and his only mission each time he went up was to come down alive.”
.
.
.
Lauri

.
.
.
.
_______________________________________________________________________
.
**He turned 21 shortly before his last mission. By that time he was had been awarded the Distinguish Flying Cross and the Air Metal with 4 Oak Leaf clusters- how can the average 20-something today, or Me, relate to that?
He went on to fly B36's in the the new Strategic Air Command (SAC)- as the 'observer" - I have joked with my father that he had his finger on one of the most awesome weapon of all time- a 20 megaton H-Bomb......
He retired an AF colonel, like my father.
.
___________________________________________________________
.

I very much enjoyed reading your comments about your Father and Grandfather because of their extraordinary service. You have very good reason to be so proud.

Regarding the 8th Air Force, it has a very rich history. Anyone that has served in the Mighty 8th, should be very proud. I have driven by The Mighty 8th museum in Savannah many times, but I really need to take time to visit it. I retired from the US Air Force and last served in the NC Air National Guard. I trained at the Savannah Air National Guard Base twice for combat communications deployment roles. It's a nice area, but I never made it to the museum.

You can learn a lot just reading the Wikipedia article on the 8th Air Force. It is well done. An early commander of the 8th Air Force was General Jimmy Doolittle. The Wikipedia article about him is also very good. All that these guys did in their military careers is quite amazing. I wonder if your Grandfather met him, I imagine he did.

It might surprise some that Jimmy Stewart flew bomber combat missions in WWII. He eventually became Chief of Staff of the 2nd Combat wing, 2nd Air Division of the 8th Air Force. After the war he served in the Air Force reserve. He retired in the late 60's as a Brigadier General. He was later promoted to Major General in retirement by Ronald Reagan. His last combat mission was a B52 bombing mission in Vietnam. I never get tired of reading this account. Mr. Stewart Goes to Vietnam | HistoryNet

 

[Lauri-CoyoteFrostbite]

Those were kind word FLB, Thank you
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My grandfather did know Jimmy Stewart; he was their commanding officer
______________________________________________________________-
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Oh, I am afraid I am about to do what I am famous for in these Forums- jumping the subject off track... smiles. But here goes----
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I said my grandfather didn't talk to me about what happened in combat; but like I said, he had a great sense of humour. And all other things military were fair game.
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One of his stories I don't think he'd mind my telling here involved Jimmy Stewart.
.
When conditions precluded combat missions, these bomber crews often flew 'milk runs' carrying gasoline and other supplies to France. On one such 'run', their commander went along as an observer. This was Jimmy Stewart. He was hoping for a quick trip, and was expected in London that evening for some formal affair; the turn around time being too short for him to return to his quarters to change uniforms, he brought it along on the plane.
.
On their return the B24 developed engine trouble- loosing one before leaving France. But then over the Channel they lost a second. The plane's captain struggled to keep it in the air- and he order'd everything non essential to be thrown overboard.... flak suits, helments, fire extinguishers all went first... then the machine guns ....
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Jimmy Stewart's fancy dress uniform in his flight bag would not be immune- and it fell to my grandfather, who was one of those doing the pitching, to toss it as well. He said that Col. Stewart, before he consigned the bag to the open door, opened it and removed his brand new uniform dress hat.
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"I really like this hat, Lieutenant" he said wistfully, holding it.
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Then putting the hat back in the bag with the rest of his personal gear, he added
.
"But its the Captain's orders" ......... and so out went the bag.
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__________________________________________________________-
I can never watch a Jimmy Stewart movie without hearing his so distinctive voice saying that in his so Jimmy Stewart way.
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.
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Lauri

 

[GROL]

Those were kind word FLB, Thank you
.

.
My grandfather did know Jimmy Stewart; he was their commanding officer
______________________________________________________________-
.
Oh, I am afraid I am about to do what I am famous for in these Forums- jumping the subject off track... smiles. But here goes----
.
.
I said my grandfather didn't talk to me about what happened in combat; but like I said, he had a great sense of humour. And all other things military were fair game.
.
One of his stories I don't think he'd mind my telling here involved Jimmy Stewart.
.
When conditions precluded combat missions, these bomber crews often flew 'milk runs' carrying gasoline and other supplies to France. On one such 'run', their commander went along as an observer. This was Jimmy Stewart. He was hoping for a quick trip, and was expected in London that evening for some formal affair; the turn around time being too short for him to return to his quarters to change uniforms, he brought it along on the plane.
.
On their return the B24 developed engine trouble- loosing one before leaving France. But then over the Channel they lost a second. The plane's captain struggled to keep it in the air- and he order'd everything non essential to be thrown overboard.... flak suits, helments, fire extinguishers all went first... then the machine guns ....
.
Jimmy Stewart's fancy dress uniform in his flight bag would not be immune- and it fell to my grandfather, who was one of those doing the pitching, to toss it as well. He said that Col. Stewart, before he consigned the bag to the open door, opened it and removed his brand new uniform dress hat.
.
"I really like this hat, Lieutenant" he said wistfully, holding it.
.
Then putting the hat back in the bag with the rest of his personal gear, he added
.
"But its the Captain's orders" ......... and so out went the bag.
.
__________________________________________________________-
I can never watch a Jimmy Stewart movie without hearing his so distinctive voice saying that in his so Jimmy Stewart way.
.
.
.
Lauri

Very fun story. Thanks so much for sharing. I have been a long time fan of Jimmy Stewart. He was a fine example of an American Patriot. I had hoped to meet him one day, but unfortunately that didn't happen. Jimmy Stewart also had a great sense of humor. I'll bet he and your Grandfather shared some really good laughs. It's hard to relate the comradery that military members share with those that have not experienced it, they work hard, but have a lot of fun mixed in with all the hard times. It helps to level out the stressful situations. I sometimes miss it.

 

[AK9R]

And, now back to the topic of this thread: amateur radio and privacy.

 

[K7MFC]

Many of the comments in this thread are rehashing the same sentiments, and this is a discussion that has been had in countess other threads as well. The bottom line is that if personal privacy is of the utmost importance to an individual, a hobby that requires registering some degree of personal information in a publicly searchable database and broadcasting that identifying information at regular intervals is probably not a good hobby for said individual.

 

[mmckenna]

I feel you generalized too much with that.

It's not always about the "individual". In my specific case I had call sign license plates on my truck. I was traveling a lot for work. Newly married, my wife was often at home alone. She expressed concern. Being a good husband, I listened to what she said and took steps to address it. That was something I chose to do for her.

There is no requirement that any amateur radio operator put their call sign on their vehicle, use their call sign for their log in, e-mail address, or any other chosen identifier.
I get it, some hams are really proud of their call sign. Nothing wrong with that. And nothing stopping anyone from identifying themselves any way they want. No one has judged anyone else for choosing to have call sign license plates, call sign hats, call sign shirts, call sign e-mail addresses, or anything else.


And no licensed ham should ever be discouraged from participating in the hobby because they do not share your particular point of view.

 

[KK4JUG]

K7MFC and mmckenna: well said

 

[K7MFC]

I feel you generalized too much with that.

I meant it to be a general statement. Amateur radio in the USA requires submitting your name and an address to the FCC. This information will ultimately wind up in public databases. If somebody is not comfortable with that amount of personal information being publicly exposed, it may be a roadblock for them to enter the hobby.

And no licensed ham should ever be discouraged from participating in the hobby because they do not share your particular point of view.

I hope that's not how my post is being interpreted - I'm not discouraging anybody from this hobby! Quite the opposite in fact if anyone cares to dig through my websites/blog posts/etc.. My "point of view" is simply to follow the FCC rules - what I would discourage is people skirting the rules in any way in an attempt to protect their privacy (falsifying information on license applications, not ID'ing on air, etc).

 

[mmckenna]

It's all about personal choices.

It's perfectly legal to use a PO box. For many years my "real" address was a PO box as I had no street address where I lived. That PO box was legally used on my amateur radio license. Nothing to stop others from doing the same thing. Not everyone in the country lives at an established street address, some are transient, some live "off the grid", a lot of variables, so we cannot force others to meet our own opinions of what an address is. Using a PO box is not skirting the rules.

ID'ing is required, but putting that ID on a car, e-mail address, or anywhere else isn't.

As for the privacy part, well, privacy is a fleeting thing. We don't always have a lot of control over it, but there are choices we can make that do give us a bit of control. There are a lot of instances where someone will ask for mailing address, phone numbers or e-mail addresses with no legal basis for having them. Some choose to freely give that information away. Once we give it away, we have no control over what happens with it. In the end, all we can do is exert control over the places we still have it.
We always have the option of asking "why do you need that information?".


Point is, we cannot assume that anything is secure or anything is private. Blindly giving away personal information is a choice. Some choose to do it, some choose not to. And, for the individual, both choices are OK.

 

[K7MFC]

Using a PO box is not skirting the rules

Just so we're clear here...I definitely did not state or imply, in any way, that "using a PO box is skirting the rules." I use a P.O. Box as my contact address for privacy reasons, and have always encouraged this practice. It's my box however, it's not some one else's box number I borrowed, nor is it falsified.

 

[mmckenna]

Just so we're clear here...I definitely did not state or imply, in any way, that "using a PO box is skirting the rules."

No, I understand that.
And no where did I read anyone suggest doing anything that wasn't legal. There was one guy that had an old address on his license, but we'll give him the benefit of the doubt that he'll get that updated.

There are lots of ways to -legally- protect your privacy. Controlling who has access to what information is a big one. An easy way to do that is to not give out any personal information voluntarily.

For the OP,
It's a really good question. Ultimately there is no right or wrong answer, just personal preferences. Each individual will have their own opinion of what everyone else should be doing, but all we have control over is ourselves.

 

[Lauri-CoyoteFrostbite]

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I think this discussion about privacy when it comes to a ham license is a tad over blown. What the discussion as done is become centre'd on on very small aspect of personal security. Not that I don't think its important, and Heaven knows I am careful with the How and Who knows the What about me as connected with my radio presence, but I have tried to assess those risks and have come to what I think is my healthy way of dealing with them.
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“The paranoid is never entirely mistaken"- Sigmund-Freud
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Thus said, as a female on these public social media forums- I am a little cautious, No?
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You won't see my ham call sign here, but I will talk about my hobby. I won't tell my address's, but I will discuss where I live... I don't like the term Paranoid, but maybe I am a little (so you'd better not drive up my road at night with your headlights off )
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Use a PO Box, a work, family or friend's mailing address for your FCC contact (hey, I do)- and you may sleep a little better at night. But I think I'd worry more credit cards and all that can happen to them, or buying gas at an inner city gas station at night (not this cowgirl.)
Fish swim in school, birds fly in flocks- just don't stand out and you are less likely to get eaten.
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Lauri
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[K7MFC]

But I think I'd worry more credit cards and all that can happen to them, or buying gas at an inner city gas station at night.

Other greater risks do not diminish the importance of discussing security and personal information in the amateur radio world. I agree the issue has perhaps become overblown in this thread as it relates to very specific occurrences and situations. But things have changed since the beginning of amateur radio and so has the discussion. Every civilian has instant access to FCC records at their fingertips, it's only nataural that those seeking to do harm to society will eventually use this and other simialr tools to their advantage in some capacity.

To directly address OP - yes, privacy does concern many amateur radio licensees, but you will ultimately need to navigate this yourself, deciding what information you are comfortable with being public, and the degree to which you want to advertise your call sign.