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Programming the PRO-96 and 2096 for rebanded Motorola trunked systems

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WayneH

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#1
Everyone, I believe I can successfully say that the digital RadioShack scanners such as the PRO-96 and 2096 (along with most of the GRE's) will support rebanded Motorola trunked systems that utilize a 3600 ("SmartNet") control channel. This is done through the custom table feature that these radio have.

Please note: you will need Starrsoft's WIN96 software to program the custom tables. You can get the software here.

Here is the table to program:

Code:
ChLO ChHI  Step    Offset  Base
440  559  25.000  440     851.025000
000  719  25.000    0     851.012500
720  759  25.000    0     848.000000
815  831  25.000    0     846.625000
958  958  25.000  958     868.975000
961 1022  25.000    0     843.400000
This is meant to support systems whether they are in the process of transitioning from 866MHz freqs or have already switched over and only use 850MHz frequencies. The two systems which have been mentioned in other threads on RadioReference (Alabama and Vacaville, California) have made complete transitions. Vacaville specifically was using 866 and immediately moved off them to the 850MHz freqs.

To simplify programming, if your system has rebanded and does NOT use any frequencies above 862MHz you only need to program the two ranges below.

Code:
ChLO ChHI  Step    Offset  Base
440  559  25.000  440     851.025000
000  719  25.000    0     851.012500
YOU MUST PUT THE 440 ROW FIRST OR IT WILL NOT WORK PROPERLY. A higher row takes priority over a lower row.

This information will only work with specific GRE and RadioShack models. As of now there are no solutions, temporary or permanent, for Uniden scanners. Please be patient as I'm sure Uniden will produce a firmware upgrade eventually.

Also, please do not PM me with questions regarding programming your scanner. If you are unsure about how to do something please ask in the forums as it will benefit others. I WILL NOT ANSWER ANY PM'S ABOUT HOW TO PROGRAM YOUR SCANNER. Thank you.
 
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#2
table

Thanks for posting the info I did it for DE can I ask though when done should the results be just the two control channels in the pro 96.
Thanks
 

WayneH

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#3
de784 said:
Thanks for posting the info I did it for DE can I ask though when done should the results be just the two control channels in the pro 96.
Thanks
I would guess that the number of control channels shouldn't change. But what they'll be may not be -15MHz like often rumored. They may end up going traditional and use the highest numbered frequencies from the newly licensed rebanded freqs.
 
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#4
wayne_h said:
To simplify programming, if your system has rebanded and does NOT use any frequencies above 862MHz you only need to program the two ranges below.

Code:
ChLO ChHI  Step    Offset  Base
440  559  25.000  440     851.025000
000  719  25.000    0     851.012500
YOU MUST PUT THE 440 ROW FIRST OR IT WILL NOT WORK PROPERLY. A higher row takes priority over a lower row.
In the second table row it seems that ChHI numbers above 439 would be 862 MHz or higher and are not valid for rebanded systems. Changing ChHI to 439 instead of 719 in the second row should still work and the table rows can then be in any order. At least it looks that way to me - did I miss something?
 

WayneH

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#5
pro92b said:
In the second table row it seems that ChHI numbers above 439 would be 862 MHz or higher and are not valid for rebanded systems. Changing ChHI to 439 instead of 719 in the second row should still work and the table rows can then be in any order. At least it looks that way to me - did I miss something?
Yeah, you did. If you broke up the second range you would exceed the number of ranges for the table. You're basically working off the premise that the scanner will use the first line as priority over the second and when a frequency over 854 is found it jumps to the second range and calculates with the old values.

With the GRE's it's less of an issue since they have more than six ranges.
 
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#6
Working...

Thanks, These are working on the Albertville System on my Pro-96 and Pro-2096. Now just waiting on something for my BCD996T. I just hope Uniden doesn't drag there feet on this one.


Code:
ChLO ChHI  Step    Offset  Base
440  559  25.000  440     851.025000
000  719  25.000    0     851.012500
YOU MUST PUT THE 440 ROW FIRST OR IT WILL NOT WORK PROPERLY. A higher row takes
 
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Location
Traverse City, MI
#7
wayne_h said:
Everyone, I believe I can successfully say that the digital RadioShack scanners such as the PRO-96 and 2096 (along with most of the GRE's) will support rebanded Motorola trunked systems that utilize a 3600 ("SmartNet") control channel. This is done through the custom table feature that these radio have.
What about systems that use a 9600 control channel? Will this work for those systems as well?

G
 
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#8
gg750 said:
What about systems that use a 9600 control channel? Will this work for those systems as well?
Not with the same values (the values above are specifically for 800 MHz 3600bps CC systems).

"Post-rebanding", you should be able to use a program like PRO96COM to get the "table information" for a 9600CC system.
 

mikey60

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#9
gg750 said:
What about systems that use a 9600 control channel? Will this work for those systems as well?

G
In most cases, the tables for 800mhz for 9600bps control channels should not change at all. All you should need to do for those systems is to reprogram the control channels.

Mike
 
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#10
mikey60 said:
In most cases, the tables for 800mhz for 9600bps control channels should not change at all. All you should need to do for those systems is to reprogram the control channels.
Where, of course, "most cases" means "scanners that determine voice channel frequencies based solely upon data in the CC", a set of scanners that does not include the PRO-96/2096.

EDIT: If a system's "rebanding" merely involves excluding the "no-longer-valid" channels, then the control channel reprogramming mentioned by Mike will work. If, however, whoever is responsible for the system decides to keep the same channel numbers but move them down by several MHz, then additional work will be required of the scanner user.
 
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mikey60

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#11
DonS said:
Where, of course, "most cases" means "scanners that determine voice channel frequencies based solely upon data in the CC", a set of scanners that does not include the PRO-96/2096.

EDIT: If a system's "rebanding" merely involves excluding the "no-longer-valid" channels, then the control channel reprogramming mentioned by Mike will work. If, however, whoever is responsible for the system decides to keep the same channel numbers but move them down by several MHz, then additional work will be required of the scanner user.
Actually "Most Cases" means that the tables used for 800 mhz on 9600 bps control channels don't have to change to continue to work correctly. Since the default tables start at 851.00625 and go in 6.25Khz steps.

The only major rebanding that has occured on 9600bps systems that I'm aware of at this point is Colorado DTRS. In that case, they did not change the tables at all, only the channel numbers used for the frequencies. I think most if not all rebanding systems will probably follow the same method.

Mike
 
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#12
mikey60 said:
Actually "Most Cases" means that the tables used for 800 mhz on 9600 bps control channels don't have to change to continue to work correctly. Since the default tables start at 851.00625 and go in 6.25Khz steps.

The only major rebanding that has occured on 9600bps systems that I'm aware of at this point is Colorado DTRS. In that case, they did not change the tables at all, only the channel numbers used for the frequencies. I think most if not all rebanding systems will probably follow the same method.
But, I'm sure you'll agree that someone responsible for the channel <-> frequency relationship for a system could leave the channel numbers alone, instead opting to change the "base frequency" for one or more of the system's "Identifiers" (which would likely require an update of all the radios on the system). In such a case, a PRO-96/2096 would have to be tweaked by the user, since the channel <-> frequency relationship no longer matches the "default" values used by the scanner.
 

mikey60

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#13
DonS said:
But, I'm sure you'll agree that someone responsible for the channel <-> frequency relationship for a system could leave the channel numbers alone, instead opting to change the "base frequency" for one or more of the system's "Identifiers" (which would likely require an update of all the radios on the system). In such a case, a PRO-96/2096 would have to be tweaked by the user, since the channel <-> frequency relationship no longer matches the "default" values used by the scanner.
Of course that's always a possibility. I think this will likely be the exception, and not the norm. There's only one 800Mhz system that I know of at the moment that doesn't use the "standard" 800 Mhz tables (Parma OH).

Mike
 

K4OC

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#14
viewing the table all ready installed

Thank you for posting what you did. I have a friend who loaded his database onto my scanner so I did not have to manually enter anything via WIN96. I have the programming cable, WIN96 and the latest firmware along with a current frequency configuration entered into my scanner.
I was fidling around in WIN96 looking at my downloaded file from my PRO-96 and I see where you are talking about creating a custom table. This made me think that I first need to see what table is currently being used to figure if I need to update this or if my friend all ready updated this setting table you are talking about. That is when I could not figure out how to check the currently used table. I see some numbers that are greyed out there and it is only when I choose "custom" for MOT 3600 CC that I am able to see and / or address any numbers there.

So if you would can you please shed some more light on this subject.

Sam Cederas
K4OC
Raleigh, N.C.


wayne_h said:
Everyone, I believe I can successfully say that the digital RadioShack scanners such as the PRO-96 and 2096 (along with most of the GRE's) will support rebanded Motorola trunked systems that utilize a 3600 ("SmartNet") control channel. This is done through the custom table feature that these radio have.

Here is the table to program:

Code:
ChLO ChHI  Step    Offset  Base
440  559  25.000  440     851.025000
000  719  25.000    0     851.012500
720  759  25.000    0     848.000000
815  831  25.000    0     846.625000
958  958  25.000  958     868.975000
961 1022  25.000    0     843.400000
This is meant to support systems whether they are in the process of transitioning from 866MHz freqs or have already switched over and only use 850MHz frequencies. The two systems which have been mentioned in other threads on RadioReference (Alabama and Vacaville, California) have made complete transitions. Vacaville specifically was using 866 and immediately moved off them to the 850MHz freqs.

To simplify programming, if your system has rebanded and does NOT use any frequencies above 862MHz you only need to program the two ranges below.

Code:
ChLO ChHI  Step    Offset  Base
440  559  25.000  440     851.025000
000  719  25.000    0     851.012500
YOU MUST PUT THE 440 ROW FIRST OR IT WILL NOT WORK PROPERLY. A higher row takes priority over a lower row.
 

loumaag

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#15
K4OC said:
So if you would can you please shed some more light on this subject.
Sam,

Open up a new template in Win96 and then click on the "Channels" tab. Go to the box that says "MOT 3600 CC" and click on the "Multi table" radio button. Once you do that, you can click the "Extended Tables" button. That will open up a pop-up window that allows you to customize the table. Normally it show the current (old?) 800 band plan by default, but you can click any of the radio buttons and it will change to the standard (or default) plan for what ever you clicked on. (Be careful, remember to do this on a blank bank or else you might screw up what you have properly programmed.)

Hope that helps.
 

K4OC

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#16
Oh yes this does help and I really appreciate the feedback.
One more question....when I am looking at my current database that is loaded in my scanner via WIN96....I click on the "Channels" tab and see over in the upper right hand corner a greyed out area "MOT Custom Trunking Table"...and in there I can make out the entries for "Base Frequency" (406.000000), "Offset" (380), "Step Size Khz"(25.00)..... is this the current table that is loaded?? That is what I can not figure out how to view.
I understand how to create a new custom table...it is just that I do not understand how to view what is currently being used. It caught me off guard to see a base frequency listed as 406.00000 since I am listening to RPD, etc.
Thanks so much.

Sam Cederas
K4OC
Raleigh, N.C.

loumaag said:
Sam,

Open up a new template in Win96 and then click on the "Channels" tab. Go to the box that says "MOT 3600 CC" and click on the "Multi table" radio button. Once you do that, you can click the "Extended Tables" button. That will open up a pop-up window that allows you to customize the table. Normally it show the current (old?) 800 band plan by default, but you can click any of the radio buttons and it will change to the standard (or default) plan for what ever you clicked on. (Be careful, remember to do this on a blank bank or else you might screw up what you have properly programmed.)

Hope that helps.
 

loumaag

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#17
The Pro-96/2096 has the capability to use the preloaded (you don't see them) standard band plan for the 800 or 900 MHz bands or a splinter band plan for 800 MHz (used near the borders.) It also has the ability to use a custom band plan (that is the one in the upper right hand side of the software window), this is used for either VHF or UHF and can be set via the keyboard on the radio or in the software. The default numbers you see in that (either in the radio or in the Win96 software) are the UHF defaults because most non-800/900 MHz TRS are UHF with those defaults. They can be changed, more on that in a moment. The radio is also capable of using a multi-table band plan; however, that multi-table can only be accessed via software. You cannot set it on the radio directly. In the Win96 software, the instructions I gave you earlier will give the ability to see any of the plans (including the standard or splinter plans) by viewing them in the multi-table. In the software (Win96) the custom table is accessed the same way you access the multi-table, just click on the "Custom table" radio button.
 
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#19
Thanks Lou for your info on the "Extended Tables", i was wondering where one would put that Hi-Lo freqy stuf until i followed your directions on my Win96...So far here in ILL our Moto Type11 trunking has not reached that far but at least guys on here are thinking about what has to happen in the future....Looks like there is hope for my PRO96/2096, not sure about Uniden yet....
 
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