• Effective immediately we will be deleting, without notice, any negative threads or posts that deal with the use of encryption and streaming of scanner audio.

    We've noticed a huge increase in rants and negative posts that revolve around agencies going to encryption due to the broadcasting of scanner audio on the internet. It's now worn out and continues to be the same recycled rants. These rants hijack the threads and derail the conversation. They no longer have a place anywhere on this forum other than in the designated threads in the Rants forum in the Tavern.

    If you violate these guidelines your post will be deleted without notice and an infraction will be issued. We are not against discussion of this issue. You just need to do it in the right place. For example:
    https://forums.radioreference.com/rants/224104-official-thread-live-audio-feeds-scanners-wait-encryption.html

PSR-800 Harris P25 Phase 2 Help Please

NC91

Member
Joined
May 11, 2012
Messages
70
Hi, I'm at my end with this so I figured I'd see if others have see this before. My county just switched from VHF P25 Phase 1 to Phase 2 this week and I've had the strangest thing happen with my PSR-800's. I have two of them. When the cutover happened, I simply set my limit search within the band to find the new control channel, entered that into my SDR running Unitrunker, analyzed the system and saw all the details. (Initially, there was only 1 CC and 1 Voice Channel with 2 slots. Ultimately that changed to reuse the previous channels from the Phase 1 configuration and added 3 more channels.) I added a second site to the system in EZ-Scan with the new CC and the system came right up and started following it 100% perfect. Both units tracked it as good as my actual subscriber unit and they were working flawlessly. After about an hour or two, BOTH of the PSR-800's went silent. I could still see the "T" on the system but neither would unmute or show any talkgroup that was active on the system. I also have an SDR that I'm running OP25 (linux) on and it's still receiving the system 100% fine. It's been 2 days now and still nothing on them despite multiple re-configs. Both PSR-800's are on the latest CPU and DSP firmware (and have been re-applied). The library is updated and I've formatted the SD Cards and re-programmed them both to see if that changes anything. I've even gone to the extent of wiping everything out, creating 1 new system with the new details and it still doesn't open up at all on either. The traffic is Phase 2 for sure and it's not encrypted. (Otherwise the OP25 SDR wouldn't be able to hear it) I also tried setting the site settings for the band plan to Auto Fill (which does receive what Unitrunker shows), I tried Standard and even tried Custom entering the values myself. All the while, I have 3 other P25 800mhz Phase 1 systems that receive perfectly fine still on the units. I have no clue what may have happened or how to go about troubleshooting/fixing it. I appreciate any experience someone else may have had with this Phase 2 issue.
 

maus92

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jun 23, 2004
Messages
3,010
Location
Annapolis
My PSR-800 generally doesn’t work well on our statewide Phase 2 system, although it’s Motorola, and is built with simulcast cells and standalone sites. That said, when used in a stationary mode inside my house with a RS800 antenna, it is acceptable. Note that I live 3/4 mile from a simulcast tower. When using mobile, it is totally unreliable. My G5 and SDS radios work perfectly.

I can say that the Harris Phase 2 systems can be wonky.
 

NC91

Member
Joined
May 11, 2012
Messages
70
My PSR-800 generally doesn’t work well on our statewide Phase 2 system, although it’s Motorola, and is built with simulcast cells and standalone sites. That said, when used in a stationary mode inside my house with a RS800 antenna, it is acceptable. Note that I live 3/4 mile from a simulcast tower. When using mobile, it is totally unreliable. My G5 and SDS radios work perfectly.

I can say that the Harris Phase 2 systems can be wonky.
Thanks! What's odd to me is that it was working 100% perfectly on both of them sitting in the same exact spot and they just went dead. I'm leaning towards a band plan issue because the signal seems to be the same if not better based on my Unitrunker data and the frequencies are the same as the Phase 1 Configuration. It's just baffling that it would work one minute perfectly and then just stop.
 

maus92

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jun 23, 2004
Messages
3,010
Location
Annapolis
Thanks! What's odd to me is that it was working 100% perfectly on both of them sitting in the same exact spot and they just went dead. I'm leaning towards a band plan issue because the signal seems to be the same if not better based on my Unitrunker data and the frequencies are the same as the Phase 1 Configuration. It's just baffling that it would work one minute perfectly and then just stop.
P25 compliant systems pull the bandplan from the control channel, so I don’t think that’s your problem. Since the system has just switched over from Phase 1 to P2, I suspect a configuration / antenna change on their end - what system is this?
 

NC91

Member
Joined
May 11, 2012
Messages
70
I wholeheartedly agree that it's likely a configuration change :) I just have no idea how to figure out what that is :) The system is Franklin County NC, the Franklin County P25 system. None of the new info is in RR yet with exception of the FCC info on the new channels in the license information. Basically, they added 3 new frequencies and changed to TDMA from what I understand. I'm at a loss as to what I can change on the PSR-800 other than the new frequencies and the bandplan/mode of the channels.
 

maus92

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jun 23, 2004
Messages
3,010
Location
Annapolis
I'm assuming you've checked for a cch change / rolling. I looked at the FCC data, and it shows two frequencies not listed in the RRDB. What does Unitrunker show as active frequencies, and does it show all slots in use? I know that when I take my PSR-800 on the road, it will indicate full signal strength and a T symbol, but will not always produce audio. I attribute this behavior simulcast interference. As I mentioned before, the PSR-800 receives my statewide P2 system intelligibly at home, but I assume the reason is my close proximity to a tower site which overpowers the other simulcast sites.
 

dcr_inc

Member
Joined
Feb 28, 2005
Messages
549
Location
Delta, Pa
Phase I C4FM... Phase II C-QPSK... PSR 800 was never intended to listen to C-QPSK (LSM simulcast).. Time to upgrade
 

NC91

Member
Joined
May 11, 2012
Messages
70
I'm assuming you've checked for a cch change / rolling. I looked at the FCC data, and it shows two frequencies not listed in the RRDB. What does Unitrunker show as active frequencies, and does it show all slots in use? I know that when I take my PSR-800 on the road, it will indicate full signal strength and a T symbol, but will not always produce audio. I attribute this behavior simulcast interference. As I mentioned before, the PSR-800 receives my statewide P2 system intelligibly at home, but I assume the reason is my close proximity to a tower site which overpowers the other simulcast sites.
Hi, thanks. Yep, I've added the appropriate CC's and they really haven't changed other than the addition of 1 freq. What's crazy to me is that both of them worked perfectly for a little while on the new Phase II config. My SDR works perfect all the time still so I know I have the right CC's, NAC, Band plan, etc. That's what's so frustrating. :)
 

NC91

Member
Joined
May 11, 2012
Messages
70
Phase I C4FM... Phase II C-QPSK... PSR 800 was never intended to listen to C-QPSK (LSM simulcast).. Time to upgrade
Hi, thanks for the reply. That's not accurate info though. I think you may be thinking of the PSR-500. That's only Phase I. (However, the current system was Phase I LSM CQPSK and my PSR-500 (actually Pro-106) recieved it fine) The problem is that they've switched to Phase II TDMA multi slot configuration and for some reason it worked for a little while then quit on both.
 

NC91

Member
Joined
May 11, 2012
Messages
70
Just hooked the scanner up to Pro96com and it's totally seeing the system fine as far as data. I can see all the traffic that I hear and it's shows the slot it's on as well. Not sure how much to make of it but it shows the system as being Phase I and the channels are all registered as Phase I and Phase II in the frequency descriptions but that may be normal. (I haven't seen any other Phase II systems but I've heard that they sometimes can still do Phase I for legacy radios)
 

iMONITOR

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Sep 20, 2006
Messages
6,627
Location
MACOMB, MI.
Just hooked the scanner up to Pro96com and it's totally seeing the system fine as far as data. I can see all the traffic that I hear and it's shows the slot it's on as well. Not sure how much to make of it but it shows the system as being Phase I and the channels are all registered as Phase I and Phase II in the frequency descriptions but that may be normal. (I haven't seen any other Phase II systems but I've heard that they sometimes can still do Phase I for legacy radios)
Correct, your PSR-800 is still monitoring Phase 1, it's not Phase 2 compatible.
 

scosgt

Member
Joined
Jul 22, 2004
Messages
1,275
If you have not updated to Whistler, the newer firmware may cure that
 

NC91

Member
Joined
May 11, 2012
Messages
70
If you have not updated to Whistler, the newer firmware may cure that
Hi, thanks for the reply. I'm certainly game for that if it will work but I'm not willing to just try and see. As it stands, the scanner is supposed to be Phase II and it sees the system and has both X2-TDMA as well as Phase II TDMA as settings. There are tons of other posts out there about folks listening to Phase II stuff fine with stock PSR-800's so I'm not quite ready to pull the the trigger on the upgrade just yet.
 

NC91

Member
Joined
May 11, 2012
Messages
70
The last GRE PSR-800 firmware update was 1.9, which was to resolve an EDACS issue.
FYI, The Whistler update is to add DMR ($59.99) for the PSR-800. Here's the url: Upgrade Your Pro-18, Pro-668 or PSR-800 Scanner
Thanks! As I understand it though, the upgrade is only to add DMR and I don't need that so that's why I'm wondering. I have a friend with a TRX-1 that just tested it in town and it's not working for him either.
 

NC91

Member
Joined
May 11, 2012
Messages
70
Thanks! As I understand it though, the upgrade is only to add DMR and I don't need that so that's why I'm wondering. I have a friend with a TRX-1 that just tested it in town and it's not working for him either.
Also has a PRO-668 with the Whistler upgrade and it's silent as well. :(
 

budevans

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Feb 2, 2009
Messages
2,004
Location
Cleveland, Ohio
Thanks! As I understand it though, the upgrade is only to add DMR and I don't need that so that's why I'm wondering. I have a friend with a TRX-1 that just tested it in town and it's not working for him either.
Well since others in your area with GRE scanners are having Phase II issues, it sounds like you've answered your own question.

I've seen Procom incorrectly ID the Flavor. There are three P25 systems in my County and Procom incorrectly ID's the Phase on two of them.

Just an FYI, there are posts in the Whistler Forums regarding the TRX series not properly working with some Phase II systems.
 
Top