Public Safety 700 MHz band in Ontario

[w3rwn]

Reports from Essex County medics is they hate the system. Can't make out what units are saying a lot of the time, reception issues all over the places. Medic had the ambulance parked outside, was on the 4th floor of a building and couldn't hit their VR. Not hitting the VR while in the hospital too, time to time. Lots of missed transmissions. Sounds a lot want to go back to FleetNet.

OPP also making a lot of complaints on the radios (them being FleetNet still) but a lot of reception issues for them also.
All comes back to the new APX radios. Wonder how BMR will fix these issues as they seem to be more hardware than software problems?

APX Portable is 2.5 Watts on 700MHz, but 700MHz is generally excellent for building penetration (as is 400 MHz.)
The DVR-LX is 1 to 10 watts, programmable. Probably programmed for 2.5 Watts.

There are some known interference cases between 700MHz LTE Cell network and 700 MHz public safety networks.
I wonder if that 4 storey building had cell antennas on the roof?

S&T FRG Case Study of Interference Between Public Safety LTE And Public Safety 700 MHz Land Mobile Radio | Homeland Security

This technical white paper discusses measurements of Project 25 (P25) LMR receivers' performance when subjected to adjacent service interference from public safety LTE, and interference to LTE base stations from P25.

www.dhs.gov

What is a VR:
When we talk about VRs or Vehiclular Repeaters, this is what they look like.

DVR-LX: A Smaller and Lighter P25 Digital Vehicular Repeater

Introducing the DVR-LX P25 Digital Vehicular Repeater. Designed to enhance radio coverage, the DVR-LX extends the range of P25 portable radios back to dispatch.

video.motorolasolutions.com

Background Info:
FutureCom is a Toronto company, founded by ex-Motorola Canada Engineers.
In the mid 1990's Motorola only had simplex mobile range-extenders.
Motorola Canada had a Systems Integration or Special Products Engineering team making custom products, and made a custom full duplex UHF repeater for the first gen OPP and MOH radio systems.

FutureComm was started to continue where Motorola Canada SPE left off, after Motorola US basically closed down the Motorola Canada operation. (Remember the old campus at 3125 Steeles and 4000 Vic Park)
With NAFTA everything could be done/designed at Motorola in Chicago as Canadian Content % for public sector procurement tenders was much more limited. In recent years FutureComm was sold to Motorola.

So they claim. I can source parts for 40-50yr old audio equipment without issue but they can't obtain parts for a 25yr old system? Laughable.

I chalk it up to that whole planned obsolescence thing, plain and simple. They wanted new 'toys'. Well they got it now.

The radio system, both base stations and mobiles are serviced based on FRUs - Field Replaceable Units.
Motorola does not generally publish the in depth technical manuals to repair the FRUs.
There is a large software component to a Motorola base station or Mobile, and that is not documented outside Motorola.

Radio Service Shops no longer service components at the discrete component level on printed circuit boards.
All of this gear is surface mounted and very time consuming to troubleshoot and to repair on a bench.

So when they say it's not supportable, it's more of a "Commercially Not Supportable"
Once Motorola stops servicing the FRUs via depot service, you burn down your spares inventory, and then its no longer supportable.

The BMR techs are probably going to be scavenging gear from Zone 1 to send to keep Zone 2, 3 and 4 as spares.
Quantar Power Supplies and Power Amps drop like flies.
They have to keep Fleetnet running for the next several months while the transition occurs.

 

[mikewazowski]

They have to keep Fleetnet running for the next several years while the transition occurs.

FTFY

There are some known interference cases between 700MHz LTE Cell network and 700 MHz public safety networks.
I wonder if that 4 storey building had cell antennas on the roof?

S&T FRG Case Study of Interference Between Public Safety LTE And Public Safety 700 MHz Land Mobile Radio | Homeland Security

This technical white paper discusses measurements of Project 25 (P25) LMR receivers' performance when subjected to adjacent service interference from public safety LTE, and interference to LTE base stations from P25.

www.dhs.gov

Public Safety LTE which is directly adjacent to the LMR band. As far as I know, no Canadian carriers are using that band.

 

[exkalibur]

FTFY


Public Safety LTE which is directly adjacent to the LMR band. As far as I know, no Canadian carriers are using that band.

There's a rather sizable Band 14 system in the GTA

So they claim. I can source parts for 40-50yr old audio equipment without issue but they can't obtain parts for a 25yr old system? Laughable.

I chalk it up to that whole planned obsolescence thing, plain and simple. They wanted new 'toys'. Well they got it now.

It comes down to parts and support. With a current radio like an APX, if there's a problem, it goes back to Motorola and they'll send a replacement. With a legacy radio like what the OPP use, Motorola will tell them to fly a kite so they're on their own trying to find replacement parts.

 

[mapleradio]

There's a rather sizable Band 14 system in the GTA (assuming that's what you meant)

Could you point me to that?

 

[exkalibur]

Could you point me to that?

Halton Police First in Canada to Adopt a Dedicated Public Safety Wireless Network - Motorola Solutions

Halton Police First in Canada to Adopt a Dedicated Public Safety Wireless Network

www.motorolasolutions.com

Peel Region has also joined onto it.

 

[Muxlow]

Peel Regional Police were using a Hytera cell network few years ago. Guess they changed?

 

[w3rwn]

There's a rather sizable Band 14 system in the GTA (assuming that's what you meant)


It comes down to parts and support. With a current radio like an APX, if there's a problem, it goes back to Motorola and they'll send a replacement. With a legacy radio like what the OPP use, Motorola will tell them to fly a kite so they're on their own trying to find replacement parts.

Feds are trying to coordinate public safety broadband.

Progress Report on a National Public Safety Broadband Network

Progress Report on a National Public Safety Broadband Network

www.publicsafety.gc.ca

And Ontario Sol Gen has a Public Safety Broadband Office which is adjacent to the Government Mobile Communications Office (GMCO)

INFO-GO - Employee and organization directory

INFO-GO is an electronic publication of the Ontario Government’s directory. This directory provides information on the government’s employees and organizations in English and French.

www.infogo.gov.on.ca

Fundamentally Canada is very large geography with very modest population, so a dedicated Public Safety Broadband makes sense in the Windsor to Quebec City Corridor and around other larger cities where these is density, but in other geographies it would be more feasible to use a combination of commercial mobile networks and broadband mobile satelitte access with intelligent routing to protect against commercial network failures.