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Radio Privacy

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cmac_attack

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Sorry for being a complete newb to 2 way radios, but we all have to start somewhere right? Anyway, here is my question: Is there anyway to have some sort of privacy between 2 or 3 radios? I have heard of the term P.L. and not sure if this is the same thing. ANY help would be appreciated. Thank you!
 

gewecke

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"Private Line" is an old term from motorola which refers to continuous tone coded squelch system(ctcss) which most newer radios use now,but only to prevent co-channel interference. It's not meant for anyone to have private comms.
N9ZAS
 

cmac_attack

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I have a Motorola CM300 and also have the programming software. Could you tell me what I would need to do to make this happen? Thanks
 

fineshot1

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I completely understand. I am just curious if I could make this happen

Its possible you could - but you'd be getting in over your head financially and from the technical
standpoint as well. You would need high end portables(or mobiles depending on your needs)
which are expensive. They would each need the encryption option - more expense. Then you
would need the software and cables and possibly other items to program them. Then you would
need a licensed frequency or frequencies....and the beat goes on.....you get the idea now - right?
 

cmac_attack

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Have to revive this topic for another newbie questions about privacy. Upon opening the CPS for my motorola radio. I have the options on each channel to change the squelch type. I have them all set to TPL. If I can CURRENTLY talk freely and clearly with someone on Channel 1 with TPL code 3A, what would happen if I changed the code to something other than 3A on my radio but not on theres. I think I understand that the sound would be very mixed and unable to understand, although they would still be able to here noise. Is this correct? What about changing the Squelch type to something other than TPL. What would this do? Thanks so much!
 

GTR8000

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You are confusing "coded squelch" with "encryption". They are two completely different animals. TPL/DPL codes are NOT a form of encryption, nor do they really give you any form of "privacy" whatsoever. They simply allow a radio to remain muted until it detects a transmission with the proper code, at which point the radio will un-mute. Anyone with a scanner or radio in carrier squelch mode will be able to monitor ALL transmissions, regardless of whether you're using a TPL/DPL or not.
 
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Forts

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If you change the PL on one radio and not the other, you won't hear anything on either radio.

When it comes to squelch types there is typical TPL (or CTCSS or just PL), DPL (or sometimes DCS.. which is basically a digital version of PL) and CSQ. CSQ simply means there is no sub audible tone.
 

cmac_attack

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So in short, if one wanted privacy using 2 way radios, then they would have to get a license from the FCC for their own frequency as there is nothing else. Correct?
 

zz0468

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So in short, if one wanted privacy using 2 way radios, then they would have to get a license from the FCC for their own frequency as there is nothing else. Correct?

If one want's privacy, one uses a cellphone.

If one wants privacy on a radio, one uses encryption. Expensive, and probably no way to make legal for the average man on the street.

If one wants to just chit chat with friends, one gets a ham license.

If you don't have the wherewithal to get a ham license, then use one of the personal communications services like GMRS (easy to get license required), CB, FRS, or MURS. All use frequencies that are shared with no expectation of privacy.

If you have a legitimate business need, get a business license from the FCC on a frequency that is shared. There is no expectation of privacy. Encryption is not allowed.

If one want's their own frequency that no one else has, dream on - it ain't gonna happen. Period - end of discussion. The closest you'll come is a talk group on a trunked system, or Nextel. Just pay monthly bill.

There are 900 MHz radios that are operated under part 15 (no license required) that are spread spectrum with hundreds of combinations. Minimal expectation of privacy, but highly unlikely anyone would actually be listening in with the identical spreading code. Cheap, no license required, and minimal range - like a few miles at best.

PL and DPL is simply a form of squelch designed to minimize nuisance noise comeing from a receiver. It provides NO privacy, and merely serves to cause receivers to stay quiet unless the matching tone or DPL code is sent from the other radio. As has been mentioned, ANYBODY ELSE on the channel with a NON-PL'd receiver will hear everything everyone says, whether or not they're using PL.
 
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zz0468

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VERY good reply. Thank you very much for your help!

You're welcome!

Now, if you want to let us in on details about what you're trying to do, maybe we can come up with some workable solutions. People are using radios for stuff all over the place. You can too. Depending on your requirements (leave out the privacy part, ok?) , our recommendations are going to vary.
 

zz0468

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Where does it say this in Part 90?

Ooops. My bad. That was an edit that should have gone under my ham radio statement.

My comment that it would probably not be legal for the average man on the street is in the context of MURS, FRS, or GMRS. Analog scrambling IS, but is so easy to decode it's essentially worthless.
 

cmac_attack

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I want to be able to use my CM300 to be in contact with my friends while hunting but don't want others to hear where I am or we are any other small things like that. That is what I was and am wanting to do. Anyway that I can get this done without having to go take a test for my ham license and things like that? Thanks for your help.
 

k6bsr

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Kenwood TK's

I have half a dozen Kenwood TK-3160 handheld radios which I use on a daily basis. These radios have built in voice inversion scrambling. It is very easy to decode what is said with a simple kit from Ramsey Electronics, but the average scanner user generally is not interested in going that extra mile. One of the local drug task forces uses the same technique on their UHF channel, so I had one of the extra channels in mine re-programmed(RX only) to their frequency and it's just as easy as pushing a button to enable the descrambling function built into radio. These radios are found on Ebay all the time for around a hundred dollars programmed for you. I don't know the legal ramifications involved in using a scrambler on the frequencies you use, so it's at your own risk. Just don't use the ham channels because we don't like pirates on our bands and will most likely track you down and turn you in. Just ask the fishermen out of Astoria Oregon how smart it was to use two meters without a license if you don't believe me....
 
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