Restricted community HF options?

[kjvonly1611]

I live in an antenna restricted community. I can get away with mild stuff (small wire, relatively invisible) but nothing major (tower or even roof tripod mount)...

I'm looking at firing up my new radio (heathkit SB-101 w/mfj-941B tuner) barefoot but am at a lost for antenna options. I want to work DX primarily and local but my only options seem to be NVIS (roof line is only 10' off ground, 12' at peak).

I like W8BNL's setup but again it's more of a NVIS setup. My home's dimensions are nearly identical.

Originally I thought I could get away with a 1/2 wave 80m sloper tied to a nearby pine from my eve's peak but once the office got wind of that they shut it down.

What are my options here?... other than move :roll:

AB1RH

 

[acyddrop]

Do you have an attic? If so you could string a dipole up inside, that could work (not extremely well though). How about an antenna that you could set up on your deck, and then take down when you were done for the day/night? If you could do that there are magnetic loop antennas, you can buy one like the MFJ for ~500 dollars, or make your own if you're handy. I've been looking into that project, and the biggest trick if you intend to run normal "power" (Ie: not QRP) is finding an air insulated capacitor that can handle your output (for 100W you're going to need something in the 2kw-5kw range, in other words huge gaps between each piece in the cap). That's not expensive necessarily (in the $200-300 range), the rest of the parts are pretty inexpensive and you can get most of them from Lowes or Home Depot. It can be setup inside in a pinch and with a tuner and the right capacitor can go from say.. 10M-80M, or you can set it up on a table on your porch/deck/etc for a few hours and move it when you're done the whole thing is light weight and easily shuffled around, and has the added advantage of being directional.

I'm guessing you can't erect a flag pole either, because you can easily disguise those as antennas, you can buy or roll your own. Zero Five has an excellent one for sale, if you can put up a flag pole. If not I guess that also limits your options...

You could tap onto the roof flashing and use that for an antenna as well, could be tricky but I've heard that works. You would still need to run ground radial for that to be effective but those are easily hidden and you don't have to dig into your yard to do it.

DX Engineering has the Auto-tuned stealth antenna which may work for you, I know nothing about it though.

There is the Isotron antenna, it's also quite small and perhaps easily hidden.

Of course, lastly there is the Ventenna but the standard and smallest ventenna only covers VHF/UHF so obviously that design wouldn't work for HF.

 

[LtDoc]

Your limitations are size and visibility, but that leaves you several options. An indoor antenna is one of those options and your attic is probably where you could put it. That's more common than people ever think.
Don't get too 'deep' into that NVIS antenna idea. They are certainly not ONLY for 'near' things. I'd bet that there are as many antennas called 'NVIS' used for DX stuff as there are antennas at "ideal" heights and locations. Lots more 80 meter antennas at less than 30 feet than there are at 60 or 100 feet, and they do just fine. 'Course, not all the time, you gotta wait on propagation, and that's absolutely normal.
So determine what it's possible/practical for you to do and give it a shot. Won't be 'perfect' by any means, but it'll work.
- 'Doc

 

[KZ9G]

Can you have a flagpole? There are a few options with a vertical flagpole antenna that are out there.

 

[W2NJS]

At one time I ran a Z-shaped 75 meter full-size antenna (117 feet) on top of my building in NYC. The ends were down low but it was on a penthouse rooftop that was only visited by me and elevator repairmen and it worked great. It was easy to get a good SWR match by using a Drake tuner. A good tuner will allow you to get good results with nearly any wire configuration.

 

[kjvonly1611]

Good suggestions... keep it coming

Oh how i would love the attic option but unfortunately this is a manufactured "single wide" with no attic...

Flagpole might be an option but I'm cheap

I'm going to talk with the office. They allow dishes and I believe according to FCC rules they can't legally stop me from erecting an antenna if I'm being reasonable...

One option I'm looking at is a end fed sloper from my shed to the pine. The shed roof peak is 14' high and I could get the other end up into the pine around 50' give or take making the end fed sloper radiator almost 80' (rough) long. If I used sky blue coated (or painted) 12ga wire it would be nearly invisible. One "issue" is it would be running NE to SW... Not optimal for overseas contacts (live in New Hampshire) but as with any "compromise" antenna ya gotta pick the "lesser of two evils"... :twisted: or :evil:

This would be fed with 450ohm windowed ladder line with ground radials buried just beneath the surface.

Like I said I'll have to have a "heart to heart" with the association but I think if I'm armed with the law and a promise to keep it @ or <100W I might be able to get away with it.

Keep the ideas coming... Looking to put something in the air next Saturday (11/10/2012)

 

[WA4HHG]

Probably not a Viable Plan

You can almost make 100% book on getting RF into all your house wiring. Add the that, the radio will be inside the radiation field leading to RF on your audio, etc..

Maybe string a piece of magnet wire out a window to.... something using a random wire tuner.

Put a flag pole in the front yard and load it for... say 40M.

Or, move. PUD communities are terrible placed to try and enjoy any sort of quasi-serious radio hobby.

 

[mtindor]

A few questions:

1. Do you have at least one tree outside on _your_ property? If so, how high is it?

2. Forget 80/40m. It'd be very rare that you'd get to work distant DX on 80m with what I perceive to be your current limitations. 40m? Well, you might work some DX on a 40m wire at 12'. Not much though, but you might.

3. Focus on 10-30m, with a real focus on 20m through 10m. Horizontal/vertical antennas and loops for those bands can be much smaller . Horizontal antennas for those bands do not have to be nearly as high to work DX often. Plus, right now is the peak of the solar cycle [or darn near]. You've got a couple years to work some really great DX on 10/12/15/17/20m. When the cycle goes south, you can forget about most of those bands.

I say focus on 20m-10m (and maybe 30m). I'd also say that if you have at least one tree that belongs to you and it's of a usable height, you could hang a vertical wire from it and install a bunch of radials on the ground. The HOA isn't going to see [nor could they do anything about] wires on the ground. They likely woudl never see any wire going up in a pine tree vertically. [and if they did, this is the very least they should compromise for you]. A vertical with a decent ground system underneath it will provide you with plenty of DX -- and depending upon what height you hvae to work with iin the tree, might actually be able to allow you a loaded vertical antenna that you can actually use on 20 through 80m [again depending upon height of tree and your willingness to be creative with a loaded antenna].

Sounds like your situation is very extreme, with the HOA barking at the least little thing.

At any rate, that's my recommendation.

Mike

I live in an antenna restricted community. I can get away with mild stuff (small wire, relatively invisible) but nothing major (tower or even roof tripod mount)...

I'm looking at firing up my new radio (heathkit SB-101 w/mfj-941B tuner) barefoot but am at a lost for antenna options. I want to work DX primarily and local but my only options seem to be NVIS (roof line is only 10' off ground, 12' at peak).

I like W8BNL's setup but again it's more of a NVIS setup. My home's dimensions are nearly identical.

Originally I thought I could get away with a 1/2 wave 80m sloper tied to a nearby pine from my eve's peak but once the office got wind of that they shut it down.

What are my options here?... other than move :roll:

AB1RH

 

[mtindor]

So, you have a 50' pine tree belonging to yourself in your own yard? That's a great start for a vertical. How much ground space do you have around the pine tree that is within your yard?

BTW, I think you are at way too early a stage to start going to the HOA with 'laws', especially if you are not well educated about PRB-1 and various things like that. THey already sound like a pain in the butt. If you immediately go there and say work with me or else -- you might not like the results.

I have a feeling you may actually have something to work with that will allow you to work DX and not have to battle with the HOA... at least not for a while.

mike

One option I'm looking at is a end fed sloper from my shed to the pine. The shed roof peak is 14' high and I could get the other end up into the pine around 50' give or take making the end fed sloper radiator almost 80' (rough) long. If I used sky blue coated (or painted) 12ga wire it would be nearly invisible. One "issue" is it would be running NE to SW... Not optimal for overseas contacts (live in New Hampshire) but as with any "compromise" antenna ya gotta pick the "lesser of two evils"... :twisted: or :evil:

This would be fed with 450ohm windowed ladder line with ground radials buried just beneath the surface.

Like I said I'll have to have a "heart to heart" with the association but I think if I'm armed with the law and a promise to keep it @ or <100W I might be able to get away with it.

Keep the ideas coming... Looking to put something in the air next Saturday (11/10/2012)

 

[kjvonly1611]

Well... the tree technically belongs to the association and is at the far corner of my plot :twisted: and as far as radials I have room in about a 90 degree swath for 30' radials but the other 270 degrees would be off limits.

You're probably right about the laws and as far as them being a pain in the butt... it's more the 80+ year old neighbors surrounding me and on the board that are the problem. The younger board members and neighbors have no issues at all... Ironic thing is one of my older neighbors use to be a HAM years ago and he's anti-antenna!

Depending on weather i may have to put off the sloper anyways and do something similar to W8BNL's setup... maybe just starting with the 1/2 wave dipole end of it and working up from there... At least from there I can load it up and see where it gets me. The opinions on NVIS are so varied it's crazy.

So, you have a 50' pine tree belonging to yourself in your own yard? That's a great start for a vertical. How much ground space do you have around the pine tree that is within your yard?

BTW, I think you are at way too early a stage to start going to the HOA with 'laws', especially if you are not well educated about PRB-1 and various things like that. THey already sound like a pain in the butt. If you immediately go there and say work with me or else -- you might not like the results.

I have a feeling you may actually have something to work with that will allow you to work DX and not have to battle with the HOA... at least not for a while.

mike

 

[mtindor]

I wish you luck. You have some challenges, to be sure. But you seem motivated enough that I think you'll get something put up that gives you satisfaction.

Mike

Well... the tree technically belongs to the association and is at the far corner of my plot :twisted: and as far as radials I have room in about a 90 degree swath for 30' radials but the other 270 degrees would be off limits.

You're probably right about the laws and as far as them being a pain in the butt... it's more the 80+ year old neighbors surrounding me and on the board that are the problem. The younger board members and neighbors have no issues at all... Ironic thing is one of my older neighbors use to be a HAM years ago and he's anti-antenna!

Depending on weather i may have to put off the sloper anyways and do something similar to W8BNL's setup... maybe just starting with the 1/2 wave dipole end of it and working up from there... At least from there I can load it up and see where it gets me. The opinions on NVIS are so varied it's crazy.

 

[n1das]

Get this book, without delay:
Antenna Zoning for the Radio Amateur

When you're ready, get in touch with Fred, K1VR.

Good luck.

 

[jhooten]

I'm going out on a limb here and say a 14X80 in a park. If so you could try the solution one of my co-workers used with some success. Mount the best mobile antenna system you can on your vehicle and run a cable from the radio in the house to the car.

 

[zz0468]

Flagpole might be an option but I'm cheap

You may have to get un-cheap.

Flagpole antennas are a neat idea, but require an extensive ground. So does any other unbalanced antenna, like a random wire or a vertical. Factor that into your plans.

A balanced dipole sized to fit whatever space can be loaded up with a tuner and will be quite effective.

I'm going to talk with the office. They allow dishes and I believe according to FCC rules they can't legally stop me from erecting an antenna if I'm being reasonable...

I wouldn't suggest that you talk to the office. They're likely to just say no, and then they will be tipped off and start looking. Also, there's nothing within the FCC rules that will help you. The FCC recently released a report on HOA antenna restrictions, and the bottom line is, they're not going to mess with them.

PRB-1 does not apply in your case.

If I used sky blue coated (or painted) 12ga wire it would be nearly invisible.

No it won't. You're better off with a smaller gauge wire then a sky-blue one.

This would be fed with 450ohm windowed ladder line with ground radials buried just beneath the surface.

Make it a doublet fed with the ladder line and do away with the ground radials completely.

Like I said I'll have to have a "heart to heart" with the association but I think if I'm armed with the law and a promise to keep it @ or <100W I might be able to get away with it.

Don't be surprised if they counter with the HOA rulebook showing that any transmitting equipment is prohibited. Not just antennas, but transmitters. Go ahead and look. Many, many HOA's prohibit ham radio that way. It precludes even hidden antennas.

One alternative is to do your operating from a mobile installation. It's quite possible to work DX in a mobile environment.

Good luck! You're going to need it.

 

[zz0468]

The opinions on NVIS are so varied it's crazy.

The opinion of most experienced hams is, any antenna is better than no antenna at all. Lose the obsession with NVIS. It only serves to hold you back. Any antenna you build in your circumstances will be a compromise of some sort, so you need to learn to accept that. Build an antenna, and you WILL get out some, and you WILL work some DX. It just might be more work, but people do it all the time.

Think thin wire, balanced line fed dipoles with a tuner. Sell the tuner you have, and get an autotuner that can be remoted outside. You can build a 20 meter size dipole and easily work 80-10 meters with it, and performance will be surprisingly good.

The requirement for a good ground connection is the single largest impediment to antenna efficiency that people run into, so make an antenna that doesn't require one. Station ground can just be an NEC compliant safety ground, and doesn't have to be a good RF ground.

 

[quarterwave]

I saw a setup for HF that was cool, for a lucky ham. I work for a cable company and one of our tower sites is about 1400 HAAT where we have a 400 foot tower. We had terrible interference issue on one of our digital distribution units in a city neighborhood...after like 8pm in the evenings. It would wipe the system off the map. This was after an upgrade to the system.

They found the HAM, operating legally, his 1500 watt HF setup just a few hundred feet from the box.

Talks ensued, the end result... They moved his "rig" (computer, radios, etc) to the tower site, put up his HF and 2m antennae there, and gave him a 1 gig fiber link for free....no more interference. Now if only I could put my UHF up there for free!

 

[ab3a]

I've been in an HOA as well. I don't know why anyone would think these organizations are good for anything. That said, I sold that house, and bought an old farm house on land that has no CC&R of any sort.

You can fight this disease with PRB-1 and you'll just annoy everyone. Those little minded idiots want to live their little minded lives in little minded places and they have no room in their little heads for someone like you. Do not ask for permission. That gives them power to make little minded bureaucratic decisions against you.

Go mobile. Build stuff. Move to a rural house on land where there are no restrictions. The real solutions are not cheap, but neither is fighting this quixotic battle. You will find yourself feeding lawyers instead of spending money on radio gear.

Anything that involves an antenna close to the ground is likely to cause RFI and create no end of hate and discontent. Do yourself a favor: If you can't move, put it in your car. Consider taking camping trips to cool places where you can put up big antennas.

I have met the people who perpetrate this awful stuff. They have all kinds of ignorance and legal backing on their side. Unless you happen to be an attorney with lots of time to spare annoying others with lawsuits, I suggest leaving this festering pile of ignorance alone.

 

[kjvonly1611]

doublet

The suggestion of the doublet caught my attention because I've been thinking about that today. running a 68' (roughly) doublet along the ridge of my roof on some small standoffs. Would be almost invisible and oriented in the direction of preference.

I did some more measuring today and I can only get about 15' up the pine and the run would be about 50'... however that could be one side of a l-shaped doublet, the other end going to the roof's ridge line.

My line tossing options are limited for getting the wire high up the pine because of the houses in VERY close proximity... Also it would have to be done at night for near total stealth.

Has anyone ever used mig welding wire? This stuff seems awfully strong and is extremely thin making it virtually invisible in the air...

Keep it all coming, the options seem to be expanding... And I will honestly try and drop the NVIS references as I know I don't have many other choices

 

[kjvonly1611]

Inverted L is UP

Well, under the cover of darkness tonight :twisted: I installed an Inverted L... Horizontal section 52' long approximately and vertical section is 10'... It has a slight downward slope and is made out of 12ga white coated stranded copper wire, soldered and insulated at the tree as well as my shed. At the tree it is approximately 15' up and it's almost exactly 20' up at the shed (at the bend of the L...) with the feed point 10' up. Still have to put in the ground radial system and run the ladder line into the shack but that will be another night.

Got the power supply for my sb-101 today and with a 30' random wire i have stapled to the surface of my roof (the antenna i use for shortwave) I was able to hear PA clear as day on 80m... didn't dare transmit with that jalopy of an antenna.

Will keep everybody updated (maybe pics when the sun comes back out) and maybe we'll QSO at some point.

Much thanks as always

AB1RH - Chris - 73s

 

[WA4HHG]

That's the way to do it ! Stealth ! I'll bet the antenna will serve you well. As long as its not obnoxious, you probably won't hear another word about it.