Riverside killing off encrypted media radio access

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

I don't know how you can say to use simplex and encrypt it and change channels hourly. If the key is compromised so are your simplex.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

You do have the option for multiple keys with some readily available radios and even failing that feature, if you keep changing the channel randomly, the chances of being intercepted are much smaller. An encrypted buzz on the same channel is going to attract interest, so don't stay parked on one channel.

A poor man's manual frequency hopping.

Program each members smartphone with calender reminders to switch radio channels on the hour, or quarter hour. The reminders would be for a different random channel each hour. Each day of the week should be a different combination.

If you change the key frequently, the adversary will have to work harder. And exercise good COMSEC and avoid personal identifiers on the channel in case a message gets decrypted.



Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk

 

[krazybob]

I'm sorry but I can't accept your solution for avoiding interception of transmissions. It's cumbersome and places an undue burden on those in the field especially. If those in the field happen to be law enforcement or firefighters and an emergency exists and they can't get to their radio to change the channel, assuming they don't have a handheld, they're going to be screwed.

As a military policeman stationed in Germany at the time we were doing our annual field exercises which kept us in the field for 30 days. We had gone to the shower point and on our way back came across an overturned vehicle in the middle of the road. As an EMT I began treating the patient. One of our MPs happened be fluent in German and was able to use the radio in our jeep and knew the frequency that the net WAS on. He was not able to authenticate because he didn't have a cipher. He was however able to declare a real-world emergency and was granted access to the net. German police and Medical Services were summoned to the scene and we departed. Now let's take that scenario and say for a moment that for the military exercises his declaration of a real-world emergency was ignored. COMSEC. As it turns out they weren't even supposed to be on that frequency that day. A lucky guess on his part.

Besides the inability of obtaining VHF frequencies for poor man's spread spectrum I don't personally find your solution a viable in a realistic manner. But what do I know?

I may disagree with you but we can still have Donuts. LOL.

 

[allend]

Have you read the "privacy" policy? They collect everything and sell everything. Maybe your voice and text are encrypted and destroyed, maybe?. But your very existence and behavior as a subscriber to the service is retained and sold.

No thanks...

https://www.silentcircle.com/privacy-policy/

Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk

I agree and when you look at using these services you always get a gut feeling that are you really secure or what. I believe the only safe security is not using any technology and go back to the basic way of life like a cave man would.

If you notice when watching TV now that ancestry websites are lower their price to increase people to donate their DNA for family history. It's all crap. These sites were created by the government to keep collecting DNA to eventually get all humans DNA prints because when they are trying to solve crimes they can match DNA to other people and narrow down the search and find you no matter if they have your paw prints or DNA on file.

The point I am trying to make is that even though you think your information is safe or locked down in a third party server or database any government agency can go knock on their door and get what they want no matter what.

The best encryption is staying away from any technology that you use on a daily basis but it pretty much impossible to not have a foot print anymore.

Monterey Park today is giving a 100 bucks off to any resident that comes to one of their parks today to buy a RING.com doorbell camera for their residents to install and have more video cameras around town and increase the footprint of video. What a brilliant idea by the city to contribute money to make their city safer.

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

Allend

I was going to do one of those DNA things until it occurred I might have more "family" out there than I need to know about!

Also they can grow DNA in a Petri dish. What's stopping "evidence" from being grown from your sample?

The Ring thing is getting pushed here as well. There have been a lot of package thefts reported on Nextdoor.com, though I am starting to wonder if this is all contrived to sell more of those things.

My wife wants a new camera outside, mostly for watching our cats and wildlife. I am advising her to keep it local and off the cloud except when we are out of town.


Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk

 

[allend]

Having video camera's in your house or outside can be a double edge sword. When you have this web based camera systems your home privacy is completely gone. So I just feel its not worth in the long run to have cameras at home. I want nothing to get uploaded to the cloud of my actions at home for any agency to have access to for anything. Video can be used against you for anything anymore. Plus keep in mind that this video stays up in the cloud forever and forever no matter if you delete it or not. Nothing is ever completely deleted anymore in our world.

 

[Spec]

So what. Let the media do their jobs and get off their butts and report it. That doesn't mean giving them access to encryption radios. LE doesn't have to do the medias job for them. Media has access to the reports that are filed like everyone else under the freedom of information laws. If I can't have access to the radio traffic neither should the media.

 

[d119]

Part of the issue may be that some people are creating their own "news outlets" in order to get access to encrypted radio traffic.

I'm aware of at least one whacker in the Riverside County area who bought himself an APX, put together a bunch of nonsense media stuff and applied to the county (PSEC) for access to the system as part of the media, and last I'd heard it was in process. In reality, he has nothing to do with the media. I won't publicly elaborate as I don't want to "out" this person.

Not sure if it actually happened or not.

Whatever the case, ERICA has been known to do nothing but weird stuff with their policies since they got the encrypted radio system. Let the courts figure it out.

 

[allend]

Part of the issue may be that some people are creating their own "news outlets" in order to get access to encrypted radio traffic.

I'm aware of at least one whacker in the Riverside County area who bought himself an APX, put together a bunch of nonsense media stuff and applied to the county (PSEC) for access to the system as part of the media, and last I'd heard it was in process. In reality, he has nothing to do with the media. I won't publicly elaborate as I don't want to "out" this person.

Not sure if it actually happened or not.

Whatever the case, ERICA has been known to do nothing but weird stuff with their policies since they got the encrypted radio system. Let the courts figure it out.

Honestly now when you really think about it your statement makes complete sense. I know in Riverside County you can go thru a background and an application process to obtain a radio and I bet there were some bad seeds applying since why not get credentials and act like you are a stringer and get a radio. I guess if you pass a basic background check and have fake credentials and act like a stringer then why not. But the problem is how many radios are out there and the security risks and I guess its at the point that the county just does not want to deal with it and says NO across the board for everyone.

But like you said let the courts figure it out. See how this whole encryption stuff is starting to trickle down with courts and fee's and time and tax payer money to fight stuff like this. This is the problem that is going to plague cities and counties when doing a 100 percent encryption. Leave the dispatch talkgroups open and have the balance approach and then everybody feels fuzzy inside and keep everything else locked down for sensitive stuff that goes over the air. This is all going to bubble over sooner or later.

Now you have private and public city attorneys involved and at the end of the day nobody wins and the attorneys get paid. Billable hours for the attorneys. Win Win

 

[d119]

Well lets keep this in scope, it seems to me that it's the Coachella Valley and ERICA that are being ridiculous about this and not the County of Riverside or PSEC.

Don't confuse the two.

However, considering the vast majority of UNENCRYPTED radio systems still in California, for ERICA to use the potential "loss of CLETS access" and CLETS confidentiality statement they made to the Desert Sun as a crutch for them to pull their radio system access, well, that's a flat out LIE, and a perfect example of a government agency LYING. By and for the people? YEAH RIGHT. Do as I say, not as I do.

ERICA has been a shady character since day one. This really is no surprise. If the Coachella Valley could become its own County, it would. There is nothing "interoperable" about ERICA.

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

I'm sorry but I can't accept your solution for avoiding interception of transmissions. It's cumbersome and places an undue burden on those in the field especially. If those in the field happen to be law enforcement or firefighters and an emergency exists and they can't get to their radio to change the channel, assuming they don't have a handheld, they're going to be screwed.

As a military policeman stationed in Germany at the time we were doing our annual field exercises which kept us in the field for 30 days. We had gone to the shower point and on our way back came across an overturned vehicle in the middle of the road. As an EMT I began treating the patient. One of our MPs happened be fluent in German and was able to use the radio in our jeep and knew the frequency that the net WAS on. He was not able to authenticate because he didn't have a cipher. He was however able to declare a real-world emergency and was granted access to the net. German police and Medical Services were summoned to the scene and we departed. Now let's take that scenario and say for a moment that for the military exercises his declaration of a real-world emergency was ignored. COMSEC. As it turns out they weren't even supposed to be on that frequency that day. A lucky guess on his part.

Besides the inability of obtaining VHF frequencies for poor man's spread spectrum I don't personally find your solution a viable in a realistic manner. But what do I know?

I may disagree with you but we can still have Donuts. LOL.

The "poor mans" frequency hop idea isn't for public safety. It is for political activists and those who want to coordinate activities under the radar. Organizers here in the US use social media which is easily tapped. There are actually programs that enable "state actors" to geofence an area and scoop up all the twitter and Facebook messages within. Or they use the commercial cellular which is easily tapped with StingRay. Then you have folks using cheap FRS radios. At only 14 channels these can be scanned at once with 14 receivers. So the idea is to use commercial grade radios with commercial grade encryption. And to add a low probability of intercept operation by frequent changes of the "NET" frequency. Yes the users would have to turn the channel every 15 minutes. You can actually license a dozen or so low power frequencies that are for temporary operations. So this can be done legally. I will buy the donuts or beer if you come to FL.

 

[mikewazowski]

Not sure what any of this has to do with Riverside, California?


Looks like the topic has drifted far enough that it's not worth keeping open any longer.