• Effective immediately we will be deleting, without notice, any negative threads or posts that deal with the use of encryption and streaming of scanner audio.

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Roanoke city P25 Going Phase II

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Ghstwolf62

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#1
Interesting today when in Roanoke listening to the newly expanded area P25 system I was picking up P25P2 traffic on the Franklin Sheriff 420 TG. The 420 TG sounded like dispatch vs a tac as they were giving out calls. Traffic was still coming across their VHF P25 channels for both fire and SO as well. Didn't seem to be simulcast either but didn't get to monitor too closely both of them at same time.

All traffic on it was P2.

It was the only TG with P2 traffic on it that I heard and all of the Roanoke channels were still P1. Wasn't able to sit and listen too much though.

This was off the Franklin site of the system. UIDs were seven digits as well.

Makes me wonder if this is going to be happening to the whole system or is it just the Franklin site and their stuff.

Sounded fantastic on my 436. Nice, loud and clear both slots. Was picking this up all around Roanoke. From 581 exit 6 and hospital area to down on Brandon road out to Orange ave about 5 miles from 581 up to the Troutville area although by then it was mostly off the Roanoke site but the Franklin was still registering as being received.

Picked up the Ham DMR channels in the area really well and the two Danville fire/rescue dispatch DMR channels were booming in so loud it was like I was next to the tower or something.
 
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#2
As far as Roanoke going P25 Phase 2 it all depends on the subscriber units in use. If they have APX or other Phase 2 capable gear then it is possible. If there are any XTS/XTL or other non-Phase 2 capable gear in use then their channels will remain Phase 1 until those radios are replaced.
 
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#3
Franklin vs Roanoke

Does anyone know for sure if the Roanoke and new Franklin County systems are one single common system?

The reason I as is that I have spoken to a couple of area Moto Techs I know, and both of them stated to me that the Franklin County and Roanoke systems are NOT a common system.

One of the chaps had a theory that the crew that installed the system simply recycled the SYSTEM & REGION ID ($349) from the Roanoke codeplugs and system equipment configs for the Franklin County system. Their logic for doing this: Why reinvent the wheel when they did not have to!

And given the fact that 99.99999% of the Moto systems out there use $bee00 for a WACN ID for some weird reason, instead of following the P-25 Standard (TIA-103) which specifies how to use the system's callsign to create both a unique WACN and System/Region ID.

The reason I ask this question is the Moto folks in the field are telling me that they are two different customers, and are two different and independent radios systems.

Whereas the RR Database folks are assuming that because they share the same ID's, they must be the same system.


Comments anyone ???
 

Ghstwolf62

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That I can't answer. I only noticed the new site if it is had been added a couple of weeks ago. So I added it into my scanner and Wednesday was the first chance I had to hit Roanoke.

The one TG IS phase 2 without a doubt. Whether anything else is or whether it means Roanoke is going to be is another question.

As to whether they are the same system, your guess is probably better than mine as you are hearing from actual people involved. I didn't notice Franklin stuff off the Roanoke site but whether that means much is another story.
 
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#5
I have a close eye on this. Got my brand new WS1040 from Overstock Wednesday. Thursday, Phase II traffic is heard in Roanoke. Dammit..

I have a few local PD and rescue friends. I'll ask if they have heard anything about new radios coming for the vehicles and post anything I find out.
 
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...Thursday, Phase II traffic is heard in Roanoke. Dammit..
Thanks for the update Jason. I will alter my list accordingly.


I am glad I have Phase-2 two-way radios I can use to monitor. (After retiring from two-way radio after 34 years, I have a few pieces of gear available.) This is great for general listening, but discovering new systems and information is often a frustrating trial-and-error process.

My issue is I don't own a trunking scanner! The last scanners I purchased are a bunch of Pro-2006's which mostly I use for Military air and satellites. No trunk or digital of any flavor. :(

Having humbly airing my dirty laundry about not having a good scanner, any recommendations from this group on what I should be purchasing? Support of: Trunking, DMR, tone & digital squelch readout would be nice. All recommendations and comments greatly appreciated.

Thank you in advance.


Mark KB4CVN
Amherst County
 
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#7
Mark, I'm honestly loving the WS 1040. For something that won't break the bank (under 240 bucks via Overstock), I'm hearing all manner of stuff. I'm hopeful that the Roanoke Co/City P25 system won't jump to Phase II, but there is a bunch of stuff in the area to hear that the 1040 can pull in. I work at a TV station and they have a bank of Uniden BCD996P2s and a handful of BCD325P2s for the news cars. I'd look at either one of those if I had more money to play with.
 
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Mark, I'm honestly loving the WS 1040. For something that won't break the bank (under 240 bucks via Overstock), I'm hearing all manner of stuff. I'm hopeful that the Roanoke Co/City P25 system won't jump to Phase II, but there is a bunch of stuff in the area to hear that the 1040 can pull in. I work at a TV station and they have a bank of Uniden BCD996P2s and a handful of BCD325P2s for the news cars. I'd look at either one of those if I had more money to play with.
Thank you.
 
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#9
Having humbly airing my dirty laundry about not having a good scanner, any recommendations from this group on what I should be purchasing? Support of: Trunking, DMR, tone & digital squelch readout would be nice. All recommendations and comments greatly appreciated.
Mark, I got a Whistler TRX-1 on Black Friday. Excellent performance so far on P25 Phase II, and DMR. Very simple to work with on DMR, although it doesn't truly track multi-site DMR trunks. However, you can easily enter a freq with DMR and the radio will read color code, time slot and talkgroup. (this info is also saved with its audio recordings) Very pleased with its performance so far.

73/Allen (N4JRI)
 
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Mark, I got a Whistler TRX-1 on Black Friday. Excellent performance so far on P25 Phase II, and DMR. Very simple to work with on DMR, although it doesn't truly track multi-site DMR trunks. However, you can easily enter a freq with DMR and the radio will read color code, time slot and talkgroup. (this info is also saved with its audio recordings) Very pleased with its performance so far.

73/Allen (N4JRI)
Thanks.
 

cjlane

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#11
Both systems are separate systems. The Franklin system is a phase 2 TDMA. They are intra-operable though and in 2017 will share some repeaters. There are interop frequencies for agencies in both jurisdictions. I cannot get TRX-2 to scan Franklin well at all. I think because it is set up as another site in the Roanoke system.
 

Ghstwolf62

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#13
Add TGs 402 and 442 to the phase 2 bandwagon.

Nothing P2 on Roanoke while I was there which would support the separate systems idea. Although if what cjane says is true then Roanoke is going to be phase 2 capable at least or Franklin wouldn't be able to use their system/towers etc.
 

Ghstwolf62

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#14
401 and 421 are both P2 talk groups. Hopefully its not a sign of things to come but all mobile traffic on 421 was encrypted. Dispatch was in clear though but nothing else. Calls were being dispatched over 421. 420 the previous TG I found with dispatch traffic right and left on it was almost completely silent today. Did hear a unit going 42 but that was it. Still in clear. Everything else was on 421 though.

Don't know what that means. Do they have multiple dispatch channels or did they shift their primary dispatch channel to 421?

Maybe just trying something out, don't know.

Also picked up TG 445 P2 which is totally new and also totally encrypted.
 

cjlane

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They are two separate systems but share the same system ID and some other things including a "master switch"(I am not a tech geek but it is what I'm told) and later in the year there will be more interoperability. FC's system will have gateways with Roanoke, Roanoke County and Bedford for mutual aid and IO. The Franklin County Sheriff's Office wants to have everything in encryption. I am philosophically opposed to this and believe it will be harmful in the long term. Nationally it seems that agencies who have done this have reversed their opinion in the popular sense of transparency. However, I am told that VCINs will be requiring encryption when personal information is broadcast so you can see where this is headed. In the radios the ability to switch encryption on/off any channel was removed, the channel is either set up encrypted or not. Also EMS/Hospital channels are encrypted for the reason of protecting patient information. The system is still in burn in but is working very well. The portable coverage is incredible(>95%) considering the county still has many dead areas for cellular coverage now and VHF coverage in past. Expensive system and good planning by Public Safety officials in setting it up, good support from county in funding.
 

Ghstwolf62

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It is a very good system reception wise. Like I said I got it all over the area up past the 150 off 81 going up 220 north.
Sad to hear about encryption. There is no need for full time encryption except certain special TGs. Period.

The whole EMS-Hospital thing is another joke.

In all my years as an EMT and working with medics I never once heard any coms identifying patients. The med channel calls were "We have a 50 year old male c/o chest pain.....etc."

In the years I drove a truck all over this country with a scanner in it I only heard one state where the medics actually gave a patients name and social security number out when calling in the run. Can't remember who it was now but its stupid and needless.

Heck HIPAA is stupid and needless. I can't even get my doctor's office to leave appointment info in a message with someone here if I'm not around even after I've told them repeatedly to do so.

I can't believe running a 28/29 is now considered confidential. Of course Virginia uses SS #s unless you specifically opt out of it so I suppose that gives it some merit. Still I think they should just do away with using them and assign non-identifying numbers to people.

Oh well hopefully you're right and they'll get their head out of their a$$ and reverse it if they do do it.

Thanks for the info.
 

John

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I can't believe running a 28/29 is now considered confidential. Of course Virginia uses SS #s unless you specifically opt out of it so I suppose that gives it some merit. Still I think they should just do away with using them and assign non-identifying numbers to people.
Virginia stopped using SSN for OLN over 12-15 years ago. Everyone should have a OLN number beginning with a letter (A-number, T-number, etc) instead. Still Virginia still ties the OLN to the SSN in the DMV records which some states don't.
 
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#18
When I was creating fleetmaps for new customers after 1996, I would recommend to the FIRE/EMS crowd that if they had a talkgroup to talk to the Hospital, they go encrypted, or at the very minimum, unencrypted digital.

My fear at the time was HIPAA was going to come down with some arcane regulation requiring all patient information, INCLUDING any by First Responders over a radio, to be secure.

Some took my advice. Some didn't.
 

Ghstwolf62

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Virginia stopped using SSN for OLN over 12-15 years ago. Everyone should have a OLN number beginning with a letter (A-number, T-number, etc) instead. Still Virginia still ties the OLN to the SSN in the DMV records which some states don't.
Strange I had to request to NOT use my SS as my DL # when getting my license as did my daughter. I have a T number in place of the SS but only because I chose it as SS is or was standard unless requested to be different.
 

Ghstwolf62

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When I was creating fleetmaps for new customers after 1996, I would recommend to the FIRE/EMS crowd that if they had a talkgroup to talk to the Hospital, they go encrypted, or at the very minimum, unencrypted digital.

My fear at the time was HIPAA was going to come down with some arcane regulation requiring all patient information, INCLUDING any by First Responders over a radio, to be secure.

Some took my advice. Some didn't.
From what I've heard its not required although routinely used as an excuse to encrypt. Oklahoma was the first big one I heard to use HIPAA as an excuse to encrypt all EMS comms back a few years ago claiming that excuse.

Either way it takes away stuff to listen to needlessly as usual.
 
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