Scanner Antenna Lighting Strike???

Status
Not open for further replies.

hydrolocked

Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2007
Messages
161
I had a VERY deaf scanner that R$ woudln't fix that the TV preamp worked for in town, but, agreeably, you may not need it - especially if raising the antenna height helps (I'd put the antenna up, as you've been researching and discussing), then see if you even need a preamp.
 

tonsoffun

Senior Moderator
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Dec 19, 2002
Messages
1,503
Location
Central Ontario
Hi everybody,
Just a few comments on bonding everything to your main ac ground. I wanted more input on grounding my tilt over and coax surge protectors after my install.

I talk to 2 of my hydro inspectors and they both told me that if my ground wire and ground rod is MORE then 2 meters away from the house panel ground, they said to leave everything seperatly grounded outside and to not bond to the ac ground.

They do not want a cable with that much voltage to be entering the house, specially having to travel at least 30 feet inside the house to my panel which is on the other side of the house.
Again, all the laws and rules are different in Canada too the US but all have the same basics rules I guess.
Take care
 
Last edited:

OceanaRadio

Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2002
Messages
150
Location
Virginia Beach, VA
tonsoffun said:
Hi everybody,
Just a few comments on bonding everything to your main ac ground. I wanted more input on grounding my tilt over and coax surge protectors after my install.

I talk to 2 of my hydro inspectors and they both told me that if my ground wire and ground rod is MORE then 2 meters away from the house panel ground, they said to leave everything seperatly grounded outside and to not bond to the ac ground.

They do not want a cable with that much voltage to be entering the house, specially having to travel at least 30 feet inside the house to my panel which is on the other side of the house.
Again, all the laws and rules are different in Canada too the US but all have the same basics rules I guess.
Take care

tonsoffun,

The electrical codes are similar between U.S. and Canada. In the U.S., new construction of such a facility would require bonding conductors to be less than 20' from the remote ground rod to the AC Service entrance grounding electrode. There are ways around this, not intended to ignore the codes but to supplemnt their intent with safe practices.

Many if not most of us create a radio equiment room that is 30, 50, or 70' from the AC entrance. This is a problem, but not insurmountable. Ignoring the code and leaving a remote ground is possibly the worst advice. Your utility company's pole is statistically the most likely source of lighning energy insult to your home, not the antenna on your roof.

Even so, the rooftop mast is capable of being attached by either a branch-leader from a nearby strike or directly attached on its own. The number of trees and their height and distance around your home is what will determine if the home can suffer a direct attachment. Bonding the remote ground rods from Dish networks and rooftop or yard/tree-supported antennas remains a critical part of every lightning protection design.

However I would not recomend you route such bonding through your home either, as the best place for such bonding conductors is buried outside along the perimeter of the home. Supplemental ground rods along the way can help maintain a high current-carrying capacity of this bond. This greatly reduces the inductance of a long bonding connector which would otherwise have astronomical voltage differnces to lighting even if it was near zero ohms DC resistance. So yes you should definitely bond all remote grounding rods to the AC service entrqnce rod. You could also improve the grounding system at that panel entrance, as it probably has only one rod, or possibly two and combined they may have a very high resistance even at DC if your soil is sandy or dry most of the year. It is THAT poor grounding point which allows electric meters to be blown 100' from the house in a blazing fireworks display when the nearest power pole gets struck. AC surge protectors inside the meter or inside your main AC panel can handle the 10ka insult from power poles but the shack power needs its own 10ka minimum surge protection from EMI that will envelop house wiring at various points inside the home if struck directly.

By the way, I have watched these posts and am very happy that the level of knowledge of lighting protection has improved greatly here on this board. I hope I had a small part in that encouragement to learn more about the process from my website which was referenced early in the posts. For those who use it, I will be updating information from the NFPA 2004 edition of 780 Lightning protection to the new 2008 edition.

Brgds,
Jack
Virginia Beach
 

dpslusser

Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2007
Messages
46
A few more questions guys.

My room were I will be using the scanners, is in the corner of the house. On one of the outside walls, is were the power comes into my house. On the same wall is were my chimney is at. I would like to mount the antenna on the chimney, and then run the wire down, along the house, and into the same hole the power enters my house, into the basment. Then come up from the bottom Central Air vent. Now...my question is this. Running the coax along the power feed coming into the house, for a mater of 3ft, out of 25ft; will their be interference?
 

OceanaRadio

Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2002
Messages
150
Location
Virginia Beach, VA
dpslusser said:
A few more questions guys.

My room were I will be using the scanners, is in the corner of the house. On one of the outside walls, is were the power comes into my house. On the same wall is were my chimney is at. I would like to mount the antenna on the chimney, and then run the wire down, along the house, and into the same hole the power enters my house, into the basment. Then come up from the bottom Central Air vent. Now...my question is this. Running the coax along the power feed coming into the house, for a mater of 3ft, out of 25ft; will their be interference?

Dpslusser,

60 Hz would be possible ingress to your coax and in many areas utilities also transmit VLF and/or HF signals through the electric lines. But there may be more serious reasons not to carry out your plan.

If it is prohibited, and it might very well be, you should consult a licensed elecctrician to answer this. While the coax shield would be bonded at the AC entrance ground rod, that in no way protects the +/- 120V line conductors coming into your home from carrying massive overvoltage from a strike to the utility pole, a dropped-neutral power line, or contact from a HV to LV power line upstream. Your coax could capacitively couple such high voltage and therefore I would suspect it could be a prohibited entry-design for coax. Ask a professional your specific question related to the entry, but don't confuse that issue with RF noise.

After bonding the coax shield ground at the AC entrance, can you route the coax through its own hole? If AC supply piggy-back is prohibited the same could be true for telephone and cable tv, where there could also be similar interference possibilities.

Jack
 

Airdorn

Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2008
Messages
481
Location
Cordova, TN
Just avoid everything like the plague when running your antenna wire. And sure as hell don't share tight quarters run with some 120 AC line.

There's good reason why low-voltage contractors make their own entrances and don't run next to HV stuff. It's especially true for antenna feeds.

And bond everything in sight. That's my motto. :)
 

dpslusser

Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2007
Messages
46
OceanaRadio said:
Dpslusser,

If AC supply piggy-back is prohibited the same could be true for telephone and cable tv, where there could also be similar interference possibilities.

Jack


I can tell you guys this much. EVERYTHING is being ran into that hole. Including Power (of course), Telephone, and Cable(internet).

Is 17.50 dollars a bad price for 50foot fo RG-58. Is RG-058 good to use?
 

n8emr

Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2005
Messages
498
For simple scanner antenna hanging off an even of a house where there are trees and other structures has high as or taller than your antenna then a copper wire run to ground is more than enough. protection. Your just trying to bleed off any static charge on the antenna.
If your at the top of a hill in the middle of no where with nothing around you then then your going to get it at some time and nothing you do will stop it. Keep up the insurance.
 

dpslusser

Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2007
Messages
46
n8emr said:
For simple scanner antenna hanging off an even of a house where there are trees and other structures has high as or taller than your antenna then a copper wire run to ground is more than enough. protection. Your just trying to bleed off any static charge on the antenna.
If your at the top of a hill in the middle of no where with nothing around you then then your going to get it at some time and nothing you do will stop it. Keep up the insurance.


My house sits in the middlke of a field. With hedgerows on each side of it. The close's hedgerow is 50 yards away. And the trees are proably 50-70 feet high. Ive been living their for 14 years, and have NEVER had a tree hit by lightning. The antenna will only be a few inchs above the chimney. Which is the highest point of the house.


RG/58 for 50ft run...any opinions?
 

W4KRR

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Apr 1, 2001
Messages
3,437
Location
Coconut Creek
dpslusser said:
RG/58 for 50ft run...any opinions?

Yes. Don't use it. RG-58 coax has too much loss to use as a base station antenna cable, especially at UHF and 800MHz frequencies. Use Times Microwave LMR-400 instead. If that seems too expensive, use (at a minimum) a good grade of RG-6 cable. It's 75 ohm, but will work fine for receiving, and has less loss than RG-58 or RG-8. That should be your second choice behond the LMR-400.
 

dpslusser

Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2007
Messages
46
W4KRR said:
Yes. Don't use it. RG-58 coax has too much loss to use as a base station antenna cable, especially at UHF and 800MHz frequencies. Use Times Microwave LMR-400 instead. If that seems too expensive, use (at a minimum) a good grade of RG-6 cable. It's 75 ohm, but will work fine for receiving, and has less loss than RG-58 or RG-8. That should be your second choice behond the LMR-400.


Ya LMR-400 is way to expensive for me. I DO have some RG-6 Quad Shielded on a spool that was used back when my brother worked for DirectTV. Can I just you that and go buy the rite ends?
 

W4KRR

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Apr 1, 2001
Messages
3,437
Location
Coconut Creek
dpslusser said:
Ya LMR-400 is way to expensive for me. I DO have some RG-6 Quad Shielded on a spool that was used back when my brother worked for DirectTV. Can I just you that and go buy the rite ends?

Yes. You will need "F" connectors for the RG-6 Quad cable, then the appropriate adapters to go between the F connector and scanner, and also at the antenna.
 

dpslusser

Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2007
Messages
46
W4KRR said:
Yes. You will need "F" connectors for the RG-6 Quad cable, then the appropriate adapters to go between the F connector and scanner, and also at the antenna.

I can't find the cable.

How about this cable

http://www.monoprice.com/products/p...=10216&cs_id=1021603&p_id=3034&seq=1&format=2

With these. One on each end?

http://www.radioshack.com/product/i...r=1&origkw=PL+259&kw=pl+259&parentPage=search
http://www.radioshack.com/product/i...&cp=&sr=1&origkw=bnc&kw=bnc&parentPage=search
 

prcguy

Member
Joined
Jun 30, 2006
Messages
15,368
Location
So Cal - Richardson, TX - Tewksbury, MA
50ft of LMR-400 and 2 connectors should cost less than $30, how can that be too expensive?
prcguy
dpslusser said:
Ya LMR-400 is way to expensive for me. I DO have some RG-6 Quad Shielded on a spool that was used back when my brother worked for DirectTV. Can I just you that and go buy the rite ends?
 

W4KRR

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Apr 1, 2001
Messages
3,437
Location
Coconut Creek
dpslusser said:

The cable you linked to is fine. The two connectors you linked to won't fit on RF-6 coax. You need F to BNC adapter for the scanner end, and F to whatever connector type your antenna uses. If the cable already has type F connectors, you need adapters, not connectors. Radio Shack should have those adapters.
 

dpslusser

Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2007
Messages
46
W4KRR said:
The cable you linked to is fine. The two connectors you linked to won't fit on RF-6 coax. You need F to BNC adapter for the scanner end, and F to whatever connector type your antenna uses. If the cable already has type F connectors, you need adapters, not connectors. Radio Shack should have those adapters.

What can I put on the end thats going to be outside, to keep it from corroding?

Isn't going through adapters, gunna hurt my performance?
 

W4KRR

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Apr 1, 2001
Messages
3,437
Location
Coconut Creek
dpslusser said:
What can I put on the end thats going to be outside, to keep it from corroding?

Isn't going through adapters, gunna hurt my performance?

There's some tape here about 2/3 way down the page.

Yes, adapters do have some amount of loss, but not likely enough for you to notice any difference.
 

dpslusser

Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2007
Messages
46
W4KRR said:
Yes, adapters do have some amount of loss, but not likely enough for you to notice any difference.

If the ends fit on the RG6 I can use them rite? The compression fit (non solder) ends, seem to have a bigger hole for the outer jacket.
 

dpslusser

Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2007
Messages
46
prcguy said:
50ft of LMR-400 and 2 connectors should cost less than $30, how can that be too expensive?
prcguy


Ive serached a few places. Even Radioreference recommended ScannerMaster.com. 50ft of LMR-400 is 80 dollars.......can you PLEASE post a link to where I can find LMR-400 50 ft under 30 bucks.
 

prcguy

Member
Joined
Jun 30, 2006
Messages
15,368
Location
So Cal - Richardson, TX - Tewksbury, MA
Here is one of many suppliers that sell by the foot:
http://www.jefatech.com/product/LL400B/Low_Loss_400_Coax__By_The_Foot.html
43c/ft from Jeffatech is a middle of the road price considering 1000ft spools run a little under $300 and crimp type N connectors are about $2.85 each in small qty but you need the correct crimper. Silver/Teflon PL-259s fit and cost around $2.75 each, all you need for that is a soldering gun. At .43/ft and connectors under $3ea the whole thing will cost under $30 if you put your own connectors on. If you lived close by I would probably just give you 50ft of LMR-400.
prcguy
dpslusser said:
Ive serached a few places. Even Radioreference recommended ScannerMaster.com. 50ft of LMR-400 is 80 dollars.......can you PLEASE post a link to where I can find LMR-400 50 ft under 30 bucks.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top