BCD396XT/BCD996XT: Scanner silent on trunked systems

[exbatty]

Since I'm fairly scanner-retarded, an acquaintance took pity on me and sent me a lovely file to use. The conventional systems worked great, but I heard nothing on the trunked systems.

I loaded a trunked system file from RR. No joy. I tried several different settings (messing about with quick keys and such or just leaving the file untouched). Nothing but silence.

FreeSCAN threw me some errors: "Unable to set WX" and "No APCO band plan available for ..."
ProScan didn't report any problems.

I updated the firmware. Nothing.

I thought perhaps in all my months of learning and rampant button pushing, I'd mucked up some setting in the scanner itself, so I performed a factory reset and tried again. No changes.

The scanner display shows ID SEARCH or ID SCAN (I've tried both) scrolling across the screen, the signal strength meter appears, and nothing happens.

Is there possibly some initial setup step or config option I'm missing? Maybe I'm not loading the files properly? Or do I finally achieve justice for my frazzled sanity and get to whack this abomination with a hammer? (I'll likely just send it for repairs if y'all don't have any sneaky ideas, but I am a huge fan of the hammer option at this point.)

BCD996XT Firmware 1.07.03
FreeSCAN 2.17
ProScan 7.5

 

[ofd8001]

With trunked systems, lots of things could be the issue. All of them are relatively minor, but finding the rascal may be time consuming.

First, are you seeing any type of signal indication when the scanner stops on the system (the bars in the corner of the display)?

Some folks in your area have reported issues in scanning the simulcast system in your area, if I remember correctly.

If you do see a signal indication, then please advise as we have some other things to try.

If you do NOT see a signal indication, then try the following:

Check is the control channel. The data base posts them, but that's no guarantee the system hasn't started using a different one. I'd program in all of the frequencies associated with the site you wish to monitor. That includes those shown as primary and alternate control channels AND all the others. (That would deal with the different/unreported control channel possibility).

If that does not fix the problem, try this next:

Create a new CONVENTIONAL system. Program in all of the frequencies associated with the site you wish to monitor. Then, start scanning the system. The scanner will stop on a channel and you will hear "noise". Lock that channel out - it is the control channel. Then continue scanning to see if you receive any voice traffic. You won't be "following" the trunked system talkgroups. Rather this is a diagnostic measure to see if you can indeed receive and hear the system.

 

[captclint]

There are a number of trunking systems in Clay, ranging from Edacs to Project 25, with one std LTR. Have you tried all of them with no joy? You should definitely use IDsearch until you establish that they trunk. Another suggestion would be to program the site frequencies of interest as conventional just to see if you are within range. You should hear traffic but won't be able to follow conversations all the time.

 

[Voyager]

For a test, change them to ID SEARCH. Maybe you don't have any active TGs in the file.

P25 systems don't need bandplans. They get them from the control channel.

 

[a388sig2]

How about squelch settings?

I've had similar symptoms and found my squelch was bumped way up.

 

[ka3jjz]

Yes it would REALLY help if we knew precisely what system(s) you are trying to hear...try programming just one first. It's usually too much to expect when getting started to do everything at once - there are many details to be learned first.

Always check your quick key settings. Did you allocate a quick key for each site, and one for each group that has the talkgroups you want to hear?

FreeScan has a nifty tool that helps you check the association between your systems, sites and groups called the System Quick Key Manager - you can read about it here...

Freescan and Quick Key Processing - The RadioReference Wiki

The best way for us to help is to see your .996 FreeScan file - just put it into a .zip file using any one of the popular utilities, attach it to the message - then we can look to see if there's a programming issue here. Otherwise we're all shooting in the dark.

 

[exbatty]

Holy mother of information! This is great. I tried to answer all questions and follow all suggestions. If I missed something pertinent or did something wrong, let me know.

ofd8001:
I'm ready to rascal hunt if you've got the patience to guide me through it. The signal strength meter intermittently appears, but the scanner does not stop scanning when the meter is present.

captclint & ka3jiz:
We live in Greenwood, about a mile from the Jackson/Cass County line. My main test has been with the Kansas City Metro - Metropolitan Area Region Radio System (MARRS). That's KCPD and some other high-traffic agencies of interest. I chose that system for testing due to interest, proximity, and traffic volume. But it's all silent. I've tried 4 other trunked systems that should be within range, and they're silent, too.

We have another scanner (I'm not sure what it is, but it's quite a bit older) that's running on its factory antenna. It's happy and scanning what's still available to it. We also have a good (it receives WX reports from 70 - 80 miles away) antenna mounted. That's more than enough range, and it's what the hellbeast scanner is usually connected to. For my convenience in trying to figure out the trunking mess, the scanner is on my desk with the itty-bitty factory antenna. I'll move it back to the good antenna if further testing is needed.

I've attached a RR trunk system file similar to the ones I've used to test. The scanner just scans and scans and doesn't stop even with a signal showing.

<Edit> Quick keys. I've tried them. On or off makes no difference. Well, I can see on the scanner display the number assigned is flashing as it scans, but I don't hear anything.

Voyager:
I switched between ID SEARCH and ID SCAN on each of the trunked files. I didn't hear anything on either.

a388sig2:
Squelch checked; it's low. Thanks for mentioning that. Obvious stuff has nabbed me before. It's like the time I spent an hour cussing and screaming and updating drivers and everything else to make my computer speakers work... And I forgot to plug in the power cord. Egad.

For programming trunked as conventional, since I'm clueless, I used the frequencies listed here
Kansas City Metro - Metropolitan Area Regional Radio System (MARRS) Trunking System, Kansas City Metro Area, Multi-State - Scanner Frequencies

I added all frequencies from Kansas City MO - Simulcast, East Jackson County MO - Simulcast, and Cass County MO - Simulcast.

Hopefully that's what I was supposed to do.

And this happened:

Lots of low signal strength on rapid squelch-sounding frequencies.

One had signal strength (very high) and a noise. Not like other squelch but more like a vacuum cleaner heard from several rooms away. Sorry, I suck at descriptions. It stuck for over a minute before continuing scan.

More intermittent stopping and brief squelching with no signal indication.

The vacuum cleaner returned. High signal, then low, then gone.

More quick stops with squelchy blips.

Medium signal with real, I'm-not-crazy-and-hearing-voices kind of talking was found. I pressed HOLD and waited. Brief speech, but it was so broken up that I couldn't understand anything. But there are people out there! And I heard them! It's like hearing a survivor after the zombie apocalypse! (Pardon my geeky excitement, but that was so cool after hours and hours of hearing nothing)

More holding on freqs netted me almost 5 seconds of mostly understandable voice on one, and a clip of something on another frequency.

As Johnny Five would say, "Need more input."

Thank you all so very much for your help.

 

[captclint]

On any red(control channel) P25 freq, you should get a steady "white noise" sound all the time. Since you aren't, it might be because you are too far from the site, which would prevent trunking. Bear in mind that 800Mhz signals do not travel as far as VHF, and can get blocked by hills or other large obstructions. As I look at the sites on this map, I don't see any in Jackson, or anywhere else near by. I am not from your area, so I can't judge distances, but I think the sites are far enough away to give you trouble.
(KSICS) - Site Map You need to zoom in to see your area.

 

[exbatty]

Aha! I have achieved something. I think.

There's a good chance I screwed up my testing last night because I was doing it late at night in a house with hugely thick plaster walls and using the dinky indoor antenna. Really smart, huh? Sheesh.

I took the scanner back to its exterior antenna and have done some daytime testing on the trunked frequencies programmed as conventional. It's picking up clear traffic from what sounds like a couple different agencies.

Edit: My dad says he thinks he's counted about 10 different agencies. So, yay?

 

[exbatty]

I told y'all I was a scanner dummy. It appears I've been trying to set up and test in a room that simply creates a "dead zone" for some frequencies. Great googly moogly. I feel very, very silly.

Thank you all so incredibly much for helping me. I really appreciate it!

 

[captclint]

Ok, perhaps you can try the trunk system. There is no question an external antenna will give you a better chance of getting one or more of the trunk systems. I would still think you should be able to hear the red control channels, but give it a try.

 

[Voyager]

Aha! I have achieved something. I think.

There's a good chance I screwed up my testing last night because I was doing it late at night in a house with hugely thick plaster walls and using the dinky indoor antenna. Really smart, huh? Sheesh.

Thick plaster walls? And perhaps a little lead-based paint thrown in for good shielding?