• Effective immediately we will be deleting, without notice, any negative threads or posts that deal with the use of encryption and streaming of scanner audio.

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Scenario: Power is interrupted globally; People turn to radios to communicate:

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KC0FZZ

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I'll go one further...

EMP would wipe out not just the power but just about all radios and any advanced rechargeable batteries that have built-in voltage monitoring circuitry. If it's an EMP, communication is going to be the least of my concern for about 5-10 years. I'm going to be taking stock in my food supply, my ammo supply, my medical supplies, etc. I'm also going to be planning next years planting, setting up a sort of co-op with my neighbors to pool resources "I'll protect your horses. You provide me with transportation." "You've got arable land. We'll provide manpower and horsepower, you provide food." "I've got a large wooded lot, I'll provide firewood, you provide access to your lake for fish."

If it's a huge geomagnetic storm, it depends on the size and duration of the event. If it roasts everything on the daylight side, there will be about two weeks before I'd consider attatching an antenna to my radio gear if it hasn't already been flambe'd. In that case, I'll wait till the aurora dies down before I go back on the grid. If it's a big enough solar event to kill electronics even if they have some level of protection/shielding, there won't be anyone left to talk to. Radiation sickness will be my primary concern.

BUT to play along... FRS for local contacts next door to 2-3 miles. HAM on 2 meters/70 cm up to 30-40 miles away on simplex (one way, no repeaters). 80/75 Meters using NVIS propagation throughout the immediate 50-250 mile window, and all other HF bands for communication 250 miles and beyond. Al of this would be with QRP to maximize battery life.

To power my setup, I'd have a bank of batteries on a constant charge cycle using as many solar panels as I could muster, and possibly (if the duration of the event looked like it would be a long time and I had enough time to cobble the setup together) hydro power to charge my batteries.

The antennas would be a combination of omni ground planes, yagis, and simple wire dipoles.

The bigger question is, in a global failure, who is going to be able to make my situation better if they're more that two or three miles away?
 

rexgame

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If this global crisis were to occur, why would I want to communicate with anyone? So they can figure out where I am and take my resources? Heck, we've seen disasters in this country with violent intruders now imagine they want to take YOUR food storage supplies because of a global problem. Why do you want to advertise your existence?
 

stevelton

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If this global crisis were to occur, why would I want to communicate with anyone? So they can figure out where I am and take my resources? Heck, we've seen disasters in this country with violent intruders now imagine they want to take YOUR food storage supplies because of a global problem. Why do you want to advertise your existence?
This is what I was thinking. Who would I talk to and Why?
After any type of large scale disaster, Im going to be more worried about my family, my house, and my stuff. Not talking to Bob 5 miles away to see how he's doing.

But in fairness, to play along.
I would want a push-up pole and a good 2m/70cm antenna and coax. A portable UHF digital repeater running encryption on top of my 2 story garage to allow me and my family to talk around town without anyone being able to hear us.
Lots on deep cell batteries, and a few large solar panels. Also, a dc generator hook to my exercise bike so I can make electricity even when theres no sun. Lots of shelf stable food. Lots of ammo and big guns. My Samurai sword to kill people without making a noise.
All housed inside a reinforced bunker.
Steven
 

Zagadka

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Solar Generator - Amazing Solar Generator Is Like Having A Secret Power Plant Hidden In Your Home
Though no doubt convenient because of the packaging, this is pretty expensive for what it is. It only has one 51ah battery so whatever you're going to run won't run for long. To my thinking that's a deal killer right there.

Specs here
 

gewecke

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Though no doubt convenient because of the packaging, this is pretty expensive for what it is. It only has one 51ah battery so whatever you're going to run won't run for long. To my thinking that's a deal killer right there.

Specs here
True, BUT where does it say you're limited to 1 battery? So far I have 3, and planning for more. :)


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n9zas
 

Zagadka

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So far I have 3, and planning for more.
Which kinda defeats the "solar power generator in one convenient package" concept that they advertise. What you now have is a solar panel, a charge controller, an inverter and several storage batteries in pieces. I'm thinking you could forgo the sheet metal box and the marketing expense and assemble those parts on your own for less money without too much hassle. I'm no expert on the subject admittedly but I'd prefer more storage and more output watts for the same $$ and I don't mind a little reading and hunting around for parts to get that. YMMV
 

KC0FZZ

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This is what I was thinking. Who would I talk to and Why?
After any type of large scale disaster, Im going to be more worried about my family, my house, and my stuff. Not talking to Bob 5 miles away to see how he's doing.
Five miles MAY be just on the outer perimiter of what I would wnat to keep tabs on... maybe a good high point where a scout could keep an eye out for trouble and relay the information in time before someone could take my group by surprise.

But in fairness, to play along.
I would want a push-up pole and a good 2m/70cm antenna and coax. A portable UHF digital repeater running encryption on top of my 2 story garage to allow me and my family to talk around town without anyone being able to hear us.
Lots on deep cell batteries, and a few large solar panels. Also, a dc generator hook to my exercise bike so I can make electricity even when theres no sun. Lots of shelf stable food. Lots of ammo and big guns. My Samurai sword to kill people without making a noise.
All housed inside a reinforced bunker.
Steven
Not too bad a strategy except for one little thing... instead of just encrypted, you'd be at an advantage to use some form of FHSS technology. Harder to monitor, AND harder to get a lock on the frequency via triangulation.
 
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KC0FZZ

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What's more... the more able a person would be to track you via your radio signal, the more likely they're going to be a threat of some kind.

My rationale here is: If they've taken the time to learn RDF skills and have the ability to power a setup to do it, odds are they're probably something of a rennaisanse (sp?) man---multitalented. If one of those talents has anything to do with firearms, they may be desparate enough to kill. Even if they aren't, someone in their party MAY be, and if someone in their party isn't, word may get to someone who IS.

Going back to an oldie but a goodie-The Day After.

Right after the bomb has fallen and everyone is taking stock in what's left, especially at the university hospital, Dr. Oakes (played by Jason Robards) asks the question, "Do you realize what's gonna happen when people find out we're the only hospital in operation for miles?" Cut to Billy McCoy (William Allen Young) walking along with "Cody", in a long train of pedestrain refugees-"We gotta get to Lawrence. They got a hospital there..."

The only thing that would be terribly different between a scenario where power failed on a global scale and what was portrayed in "The Day After" is, depending upon the real-life scenario, there probably won't be piles of bodies, fallout, and flattened cities. At least not at first.

I, for one, would not be a fan of throwing out the welcome mat for any would-be looters, nor would I want to light a big neon sign telling them where I am.
 
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KC0FZZ

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The more I think about it, the more I think this train of thought could warrant its own thread:

Post-(Insert your favorite cause here) Apocalypse: how are you going to make it to tomorrow and do so living with a little bit of comfort?

Generators: would be a bad idea, simply due to noise, smell, and the need for fuel.

Light: There would be a need for total light discipline, especially at night-if you're going to use electric lighting, you'd need a purpose-built blackout room in your shelter.

Cooking: ever drive by a Burger King or a steakhouse on a slightly breezy day when you were hungry? How far did that smell carry? What about when someone at camp was frying fish, or even heating up their grill?

Security: How do you handle intruders/looters? Gunfire is noisy, almost as bad as a radio signal or a flare telling others where you are. Archery? Mantraps? Do we go back to a series of elaborate Vietcong-style boobytraps that make little noise to key others in on where our perimeter is?

Sanitation/waste disposal: What and how do we handle our trash? Depending on the duration of the outage, a person may be able to tell the defference between a cast off food can from before the event and one that was opened just yesterday or even last week.

These are just a few things I would be concerned about, post interruption-after the initial chaos has settled down.

A chilling thought to close this post with-a paraphrase of a quote from Lance Henrickson as Frank Black in Millennium*: "If humans are to survive the next apocalypse, humanity can not."



*Yeah, I know... I watch a lot of TV.
 
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gewecke

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The more I think about it, the more I think this train of thought could warrant its own thread:

Post-(Insert your favorite cause here) Apocalypse: how are you going to make it to tomorrow and do so living with a little bit of comfort?

Generators: would be a bad idea, simply due to noise, smell, and the need for fuel.

Light: There would be a need for total light discipline, especially at night-if you're going to use electric lighting, you'd need a purpose-built blackout room in your shelter.

Cooking: ever drive by a Burger King or a steakhouse on a slightly breezy day when you were hungry? How far did that smell carry? What about when someone at camp was frying fish, or even heating up their grill?

Security: How do you handle intruders/looters? Gunfire is noisy, almost as bad as a radio signal or a flare telling others where you are. Archery? Mantraps? Do we go back to a series of elaborate Vietcong-style boobytraps that make little noise to key others in on where our perimeter is?

Sanitation/waste disposal: What and how do we handle our trash? Depending on the duration of the outage, a person may be able to tell the defference between a cast off food can from before the event and one that was opened just yesterday or even last week.

These are just a few things I would be concerned about, post interruption-after the initial chaos has settled down.

A chilling thought to close this post with-a paraphrase of a quote from Lance Henrickson as Frank Black in Millennium*: "If humans are to survive the next apocalypse, humanity can not."



*Yeah, I know... I watch a lot of TV.
All good points to consider!
Solar generators are silent, and do not create noise. Gas generators will alert unwanted visitors that; A. you have power and B. you have gas!
Bury your garbage after local government stops pick ups.
The evidence of garbage will indicate you have FOOD.
Stay silent, alert and ARMED.
Use motion lights after dark to deter visitors,and mount these out of reach!
Cook only when you are secure and alone.
Black out after dark! Movement is harder to see outside when lights are on, and they cannot see you when there are no lights! If you need light, arrange a room with NO windows.
These are just a few thoughts on this subject, from personal planning. :twisted:

73
n9zas
 

k9rzz

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How do you talk 500 miles with just an HT?

Satellite.

Not my area of expertise, but guys do it daily on the ham bands with antennas you can hold in your hand.
 

lbfd09

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How do you talk 500 miles with just an HT?

Satellite.

Not my area of expertise, but guys do it daily on the ham bands with antennas you can hold in your hand.
Don't forget all them rf linked systems as well.

If the power grid was off line, I think I'd be pulling out the solar panels and firing up ny natural gas generator. This in between my answering calls for help from the local community.
 

gewecke

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Which kinda defeats the "solar power generator in one convenient package" concept that they advertise. What you now have is a solar panel, a charge controller, an inverter and several storage batteries in pieces. I'm thinking you could forgo the sheet metal box and the marketing expense and assemble those parts on your own for less money without too much hassle. I'm no expert on the subject admittedly but I'd prefer more storage and more output watts for the same $$ and I don't mind a little reading and hunting around for parts to get that. YMMV
EXACTLY what I'm doing. The little plug and play packages they offer are "cute" but NOT very practical in the real world. A min. of 3/ 85 watt panels ,inverter and 4 to 6 deep cycle marine batteries and a good controller for starters might suffice. :)

73
n9zas
 

Zagadka

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Volts x Amps = Watts, works every time.

While we're here, those solar powered outdoor lights often run off rechargeable AA batts. They are a great and low-profile way to recharge batts for handhelds. They are also much safer than a candle for nightlights in the bathroom should the power go out. Just fyi...
 

gewecke

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Volts x Amps = Watts, works every time.

While we're here, those solar powered outdoor lights often run off rechargeable AA batts. They are a great and low-profile way to recharge batts for handhelds. They are also much safer than a candle for nightlights in the bathroom should the power go out. Just fyi...
Good point! I have 8 of those lights.

n9zas
 

KC0FZZ

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All good points to consider!
Solar generators are silent, and do not create noise. Gas generators will alert unwanted visitors that; A. you have power and B. you have gas!
Bury your garbage after local government stops pick ups.
The evidence of garbage will indicate you have FOOD.
Stay silent, alert and ARMED.
Use motion lights after dark to deter visitors,and mount these out of reach!
Cook only when you are secure and alone.
Black out after dark! Movement is harder to see outside when lights are on, and they cannot see you when there are no lights! If you need light, arrange a room with NO windows.
These are just a few thoughts on this subject, from personal planning. :twisted:

73
n9zas
The only one that doesn't follow the logic in this would be the use of motion lights as a perimeter guard... everything else is sensible.

Instead of motion lights, though, you may want to consider an audible alarm type system... even cans on a string, or just harden all parts of a perimeter except entry/egress points. Abatis type obstacles with cans and other noisemakers strung around, or maybe some of those Chamberland Wireless Driveway Alarms I've seen at Radio Shack...
 

KC0FZZ

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Murs-Radio.com sells motion detectors that alert on (you guessed it) Murs frequencies. Handy for us scanner folks and can cover up to 4 zones.
Not bad. Not bad at all. With a solar charger that would be okay but to follow up (even casting a little doubt on my own suggestion); how much would using these things affect your power budget? Consioder charging time for the transmitters batteries, plus the batteries for the reciever. If you're going to charge batteries for multiple transmitters (X 4, right?) that time could possibly be used to charge a SLA to power your LED lighting in your shelter, or your radio recievers or even a water well pump...

The more I think about it, the more I think a more passive alarm system would behoove me.

If the fecal excrement hits the rotary oscilator, I'm gonna place a few of these gems around my perimeter:

Shotgun Alarm Signal Trip Wire uses shot gun ammo

ETA: Of course I would use blanks with such a device, and only if in dire circumstances where my group was pretty much cut off from any official law enforcement support...
 
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