• Effective immediately we will be deleting, without notice, any negative threads or posts that deal with the use of encryption and streaming of scanner audio.

    We've noticed a huge increase in rants and negative posts that revolve around agencies going to encryption due to the broadcasting of scanner audio on the internet. It's now worn out and continues to be the same recycled rants. These rants hijack the threads and derail the conversation. They no longer have a place anywhere on this forum other than in the designated threads in the Rants forum in the Tavern.

    If you violate these guidelines your post will be deleted without notice and an infraction will be issued. We are not against discussion of this issue. You just need to do it in the right place. For example:
    https://forums.radioreference.com/rants/224104-official-thread-live-audio-feeds-scanners-wait-encryption.html

Score another point for Open Sky (and other closed public safety comm systems)

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BT202

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29
Location
SE Michigan
#1
Came across this article: Norwich police say complaint about gunman bogus - Norwich, CT - Norwich Bulletin . Can't help but see the advantages of closed public safety communications systems like Open Sky.

MPSCS radios can be 'spoofed' just as easily as conventional public safety radios. MSP found that out when they busted a group selling P25 radios, programming cables, and MSP radio identification numbers on e-Bay. Even one illicitly programmed public safety radio can wreak unbelievable chaos.

Open Sky radios can't just be added (legitimately or not) to the system. They must be added to the fleetmap. If a radio has not been added to the fleetmap, it doesn't exist. This is, essentially, what happens when you buy a new cell phone. Sure, you can buy a phone off e-Bay, but until a wireless carrier adds that phone to their fleetmap, the phone can't be used.

Let the flaming begin. It's what usually happens when someone expresses an idea that is in non-concurrence with that of the masses.
 

wuzafuzz

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Premium Subscriber
Joined
Mar 21, 2009
Messages
165
Location
Fort Collins, CO
#2
Trunked P25 systems can do that too, if they set it up. The Colorado P-25 statewide system does it. Correct me if I'm wrong, but tons of trunked systems do exactly that. It's certainly not unique to the Open Sky systems you mention. Does Open Sky add something that prevents a clone of an already mapped radio?
 

rdale

Completely Banned for the Greater Good
Joined
Feb 3, 2001
Messages
11,356
Location
Lansing, MI
#3
Open Sky radios can't just be added (legitimately or not) to the system
Might want to check your link... While that statement is true, your link talks about someone who used his ham radio out of band to talk on the store's security channel. You can't use a ham radio to talk on MPSCS.
 
Joined
Jul 1, 2004
Messages
415
Location
Michigan
#4
Came across this article: Norwich police say complaint about gunman bogus - Norwich, CT - Norwich Bulletin . Can't help but see the advantages of closed public safety communications systems like Open Sky.

MPSCS radios can be 'spoofed' just as easily as conventional public safety radios. MSP found that out when they busted a group selling P25 radios, programming cables, and MSP radio identification numbers on e-Bay. Even one illicitly programmed public safety radio can wreak unbelievable chaos.

Open Sky radios can't just be added (legitimately or not) to the system. They must be added to the fleetmap. If a radio has not been added to the fleetmap, it doesn't exist. This is, essentially, what happens when you buy a new cell phone. Sure, you can buy a phone off e-Bay, but until a wireless carrier adds that phone to their fleetmap, the phone can't be used.

Let the flaming begin. It's what usually happens when someone expresses an idea that is in non-concurrence with that of the masses.
You keep pushing that M/A COM koolaid BT, I guess I would too if I worked for Oakland Co and had a hand in wasting millions of dollars...
 
Joined
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Messages
4
Location
Metro Detroit
#6
Maybe BT202 Works For Harris Corp. LOL

On May 29, 2009, Harris Corporation purchased Tyco Electronics Wireless Systems, including its OpenSky and other wireless communication technologies, from Tyco Electronics for $675 million USD. [3] From Wikipedia
 
Joined
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Messages
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Location
New York North Carolina and all points in between
#7
I doubt Harris is going to sell OpenSky considering all the bad press about it. Harris makes excellent radio equipment, they are not going to go down that same road as Tyco did ( I hope). Tyco couldn't compete with Motorola so the spectre of selling a secure non-monitorable system made them famous or infamous, as that was their only selling point. After all it is just an enhanced control EDACS system, or a precursor for IP P-25. My thoughts, and from talking to not too bright salesmen from Harris (former GE, Ericsson, Harris who are kinda lost right now) is that they will support existing OpenSky systems until an upgrade is required, but will sell only P-25 and preferably IP P-25 for new systems. We can all hope for the best, that OpenSky is dead.
If you like I can comment on how they lost New York State due to stupidity in design and implementation.
BTW that article really has nothing to do with a problem with unauthorized access to a public safety radio system. Anybody can buy and program a radio on Walmart's channels.
I just saw the comment that the OP works for Harris, do you really have to drum business this way, by spreading false statements, Shame on you! Are you a real Harris employee or a leftover from Tyco toys?
 
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Joined
Feb 16, 2005
Messages
8
#8
Maybe you all should stop whining becouse you can't scan OpenSky. The system works good, and you can not add radios to the system. The cost of the system is high, but alot so is the price Motorola wants to upgrade the states system to add more uses.
 
Joined
Dec 20, 2003
Messages
161
Location
Michigan
#9
Maybe you all should stop whining becouse you can't scan OpenSky. The system works good, and you can not add radios to the system. The cost of the system is high, but alot so is the price Motorola wants to upgrade the states system to add more uses.
How can you say the system works good when they can't rely on it in northern Oakland County? They are still adding towers.

I'd like to see the real cost of this system vs. what it would have cost to add onto MPSCS! And in a decade from now, is Harris really going to support it? If so at what cost?

If not being abled to be scanned is so important to Oakland County, then they could just go to encripted!

Stop defending the Emporer with no clothes! The only reason Oakland County went to this system is to be different than the state!

The taxpayers are getting ripped off again!
 

detroit780

Member
Database Admin
Joined
Dec 19, 2002
Messages
574
Location
Michigan
#10
Bogus Radio

In order to be concerned about adding Bogus radios to a system you must first have a system that is fully functional.

Oakland county paid Plante Moran 2 million dollars years back to study a new radio system. The result of their work was to add frequencies to the Motorola system. The county decided that the two million dollars they spent for the study wasn't enough so they threw away more of the tax payers money and decided that MA COM was the way to go. Maybe the paid someone else for another study. Might as well pay till you get the answer you want.


The county tested the MPSCS system which had 1 tower in the county and decided the HT coverage was poor. No kidding, didn't need to test that based on 1 tower. So they decided to spend more money and add 35 towers for the MA COM system. Of course they never tested the MA COM system first because it didn't exist. You think the additional towers would have helped HT coverage on the MPSCS? Naw, not the answer they wanted.

So how far beyond schedule is this new system? When will all the users be on? At least the next rotating date? How far over the original budget is it? Detroit decided on MPSCS long after Oakland county began work on Open Sky and Detroit has been up and fully functional for years now. Gee and everyone thinks Detroit is where all the money is wasted.

Let's see the county couldn't raise enough money to build the system from any bonds or millage so they came up with the enhanced 9-1-1 tax to fund it that way people didn't have a chance to not vote for it. Pretty smart.





Came across this article: Norwich police say complaint about gunman bogus - Norwich, CT - Norwich Bulletin . Can't help but see the advantages of closed public safety communications systems like Open Sky.

MPSCS radios can be 'spoofed' just as easily as conventional public safety radios. MSP found that out when they busted a group selling P25 radios, programming cables, and MSP radio identification numbers on e-Bay. Even one illicitly programmed public safety radio can wreak unbelievable chaos.

Open Sky radios can't just be added (legitimately or not) to the system. They must be added to the fleetmap. If a radio has not been added to the fleetmap, it doesn't exist. This is, essentially, what happens when you buy a new cell phone. Sure, you can buy a phone off e-Bay, but until a wireless carrier adds that phone to their fleetmap, the phone can't be used.

Let the flaming begin. It's what usually happens when someone expresses an idea that is in non-concurrence with that of the masses.
 
Joined
Jul 1, 2004
Messages
415
Location
Michigan
#11
So how far beyond schedule is this new system? When will all the users be on? At least the next rotating date? How far over the original budget is it? Detroit decided on MPSCS long after Oakland county began work on Open Sky and Detroit has been up and fully functional for years now. Gee and everyone thinks Detroit is where all the money is wasted.
Not to mention Washtenaw Co will be online with their simulcast and Opensky users will still be "testing out" their system.
 
Joined
Feb 23, 2010
Messages
7
#12
I have a noob question. I can understand how police would like it better if criminals were not able to listen in to their conversations and have a heads up. But isn't it our right to be able to intercept a frequency that is being broadcasted especially since the police work for US. Also there is special channels that they can switch over to for hostage situations etc so why not jst use that for sensitve things.
 
Joined
Nov 29, 2006
Messages
70
Location
Lansing
#13
Hmmmmm. Lets see the time line now.
Oakland decides to go MA COM.......... building, building, testing, optimizing, etc, etc........

Genesee County hooks up to MPSCS. On line.
Detroit (New zone 7) hooks up to MPSCS. On Line.
St. Clair County hooks up to MPSCS. On Line.
Monroe County hooks up to MPSCS. On Line.
Shiawassee County hooks up to MPSCS. On Line.
Saginaw County hooks up to MPSCS. On Line.
Washtenaw County close to going On Line.

Not judging here folks, but just thought I would through it out there :)
Facts is Facts.
 
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