SDS100/SDS200: SDS-100 Sometimes Working ?

[Hectomilan]

Hello,
So the company I work for opened a new school bus Yard in St. Louis Missouri. They are running Kenwood NEXEDGE 3820 UHF Radios. Dimond communications programed the Radios, I believe they’re running a trunking system. Anyways my question is, the radio picks up audio, but my scanner does not only sometimes does the scanner pick up audio. What do you think is wrong?

 

[trentbob]

If you are able to get a video of the screen itself without holding it in your hand and moving it around that could help, nothing can be seen on the screen now. Just set the radio on the table and sometimes doing the video in the dark as close as possible but in focus can allow people to read the screen and see what's going on.

What antenna are you using? Is that the REM 7-800 High Gain antenna that is optimized for 7-800 MHz? That antenna actually does work for UHF but it's not optimal and doesn't work well on VHF High. From what we can hear it sounds pretty good, what was the issue again?

 

[tvengr]

What do you think is wrong?

Is it programmed as a conventional or trunked system? Did you enter the Channel ID for each frequency? Please attach your programming file so we can take a look at it. You will need to zip the file to be able to attach it. What programming software are you using?

 

[Hectomilan]

If you are able to get a video of the screen itself without holding it in your hand and moving it around that could help, nothing can be seen on the screen now. Just set the radio on the table and sometimes doing the video in the dark as close as possible but in focus can allow people to read the screen and see what's going on.

What antenna are you using? Is that the REM 7-800 High Gain antenna that is optimized for 7-800 MHz? That antenna actually does work for UHF but it's not optimal and doesn't work well on VHF High. From what we can hear it sounds pretty good, what was the issue again?

You are Correct, I am using the REM Antenna, it is optimized like you said for 7-800 MHz. I can try taking another video, the problem is I’m at work and have no control over the sun light. My question was, why does the scanner some times picks up traffic, on the school bus talk group and other times it does not pick up traffic. I can hear the traffic on the school bus radio 3820 UHF but not on the scanner.

Is it programmed as a conventional or trunked system? Did you enter the Channel ID for each frequency? Please attach your programming file so we can take a look at it. You will need to zip the file to be able to attach it. What programming software are you using?

I used the local zip code to program the Scanner. It’s under St. Louis City
System Warner Communication's,
Under St. Louis Transportation
the talk group is 500 aka Zum school bus St Louis.

Ok so in the new video you hear the bus radio 3820HG UHF, but my scanner is not picking up the traffic. Only some times it picks up traffic.

 

[Enforcer52]

Zip Code programming does not always set up NXDN channels correctly. This is a wide known problem. I would suggest manually programming in the channels with Sentinel, or use Proscan.

Also several towers listed for St. Louis, so might depend on what tower you are using.

 

[Enforcer52]

Here is a Favorite List with all 7 towers and the 2 Zum channels. Unzip the file, use Sentinel to import the .hpe file to a new Favorite List, and see if it works.

If it does then monitor which tower you are receiving the channels on. Once you determine the tower(s) you received them on you can avoid the other towers in Sentinel.

Oh did I mention Zip Code programming s***ks.

Updated file to only 7 towers. @tvengr was correct on just 7.

 

[trentbob]

Yes I agree that you need to program this yourself manually and if you Google programming nxdn on SDS radios it will explain using the information in the database. For example you will have to use the LCN finder. When you Google it ignore AI, save yourself the trouble as it'll probably be wrong but it will also quote many radio reference posts or threads that will explain programming, you could also search on radio reference on how to program an nxdn system. There may be YouTube videos on how to program an nxdn system.

As far as your second video, It tells a story, you might want to try using a better antenna for UHF. You can try the original antenna that comes with the radio but it probably won't do much better then the REM, I don't know what your choices are but...

If you look at your signal indicator you will see it bouncing all over the place or even disappearing altogether as you go from site to site, the reception on each site is not going to be equal depending on where it is.

You have a lot of reading and studying to do but it looks like once you get a program properly and you get an aftermarket antenna with wide coverage that works better than the one that comes with the radio you will eventually be in good shape.

 

[tvengr]

I see talkgroup 500 so I know it is programmed as a trunked system, There are possibly 5 talkgroups used for St. Louis schools.

410	D	school bus 410	school buses	Schools
411	D	school bus 411	school buses (St Louis city)	Schools
412	D	school bus 412	school buses (St Louis city)	Schools
500	D	Zum School Bus A	Zum School Bus (St Louis Public Schools)	Schools
501	D	Zum School Bus B	Zum School Bus (St Louis Public Schools)	Schools

I see that you are currently using the BJ Hospital South site. Do you know which site the company radio is using. Different units may affiliate with different sites. There are 7 sites for St. Louis County.

001 (1)	WashU SM/CAM	St. Louis, MO	451.775c	452.025	452.650	453.01875	452.51875
002 (2)	BJ Hospital South	St. Louis, MO	452.700c	461.900	463.725	464.450	463.30625
003 (3)	Childrens Hospital	St. Louis, MO	451.375	452.850c	463.900	463.75625c	464.40625
004 (4)	BJ West County	St. Louis, MO	454.046875c	454.271875	454.421875	454.621875
008 (8)	Florissant	St. Louis, MO	452.875	0.000c	0.000	454.053125c	454.65625
012 (C)	Clayton	St. Louis, MO	463.775c	464.9625	451.0125
111 (6F)	BJ Parkview Tower	St. Louis, MO	462.150	462.425	463.575	464.1375	462.225

For the BJ Hospital South site, do you have the channel ID for each frequency. You are correct that the RAN is 2.

Site Frequency Table​ CH ID Frequency 217 452.700c 553 461.900 699 463.725 757 464.450 803 463.30625
Each of the 7 sites will have a different Site Frequency Table.

 

[Hectomilan]

Here is a Favorite List with all 7 towers and the 2 Zum channels. Unzip the file, use Sentinel to import the .hpe file to a new Favorite List, and see if it works.

If it does then monitor which tower you are receiving the channels on. Once you determine the tower(s) you received them on you can avoid the other towers in Sentinel.

Oh did I mention Zip Code programming s***ks.

Updated file to only 7 towers. @tvengr was correct on just 7.

You guys are smart! I will do this when I get back to the hotel. Thanks everyone!!

View attachment 189833

Yes I agree that you need to program this yourself manually and if you Google programming nxdn on SDS radios it will explain using the information in the database. For example you will have to use the LCN finder. When you Google it ignore AI, save yourself the trouble as it'll probably be wrong but it will also quote many radio reference posts or threads that will explain programming, you could also search on radio reference on how to program an nxdn system. There may be YouTube videos on how to program an nxdn system.

As far as your second video, It tells a story, you might want to try using a better antenna for UHF. You can try the original antenna that comes with the radio but it probably won't do much better then the REM, I don't know what your choices are but...

If you look at your signal indicator you will see it bouncing all over the place or even disappearing altogether as you go from site to site, the reception on each site is not going to be equal depending on where it is.

You have a lot of reading and studying to do but it looks like once you get a program properly and you get an aftermarket antenna with wide coverage that works better than the one that comes with the radio you will eventually be in good shape.

Thanks you sir for the great information.! Dumb question can I Non affiliate with my Kenwood NX5300 UHF to monitor these trunking sys?

I see talkgroup 500 so I know it is programmed as a trunked system, There are possibly 5 talkgroups used for St. Louis schools.

410	D	school bus 410	school buses	Schools
411	D	school bus 411	school buses (St Louis city)	Schools
412	D	school bus 412	school buses (St Louis city)	Schools
500	D	Zum School Bus A	Zum School Bus (St Louis Public Schools)	Schools
501	D	Zum School Bus B	Zum School Bus (St Louis Public Schools)	Schools

I see that you are currently using the BJ Hospital South site. Do you know which site the company radio is using. Different units may affiliate with different sites. There are 7 sites for St. Louis County.

001 (1)	WashU SM/CAM	St. Louis, MO	451.775c	452.025	452.650	453.01875	452.51875
002 (2)	BJ Hospital South	St. Louis, MO	452.700c	461.900	463.725	464.450	463.30625
003 (3)	Childrens Hospital	St. Louis, MO	451.375	452.850c	463.900	463.75625c	464.40625
004 (4)	BJ West County	St. Louis, MO	454.046875c	454.271875	454.421875	454.621875
008 (8)	Florissant	St. Louis, MO	452.875	0.000c	0.000	454.053125c	454.65625
012 (C)	Clayton	St. Louis, MO	463.775c	464.9625	451.0125
111 (6F)	BJ Parkview Tower	St. Louis, MO	462.150	462.425	463.575	464.1375	462.225

For the BJ Hospital South site, do you have the channel ID for each frequency. You are correct that the RAN is 2.

Site Frequency Table​ CH ID Frequency 217 452.700c 553 461.900 699 463.725 757 464.450 803 463.30625
Each of the 7 sites will have a different Site Frequency Table.

Yes your correct my company uses both Zum Talk Groups, 500 is dispatch channel and 501 is the Tac Channel.

 

[dmfalk]

Thanks you sir for the great information.! Dumb question can I Non affiliate with my Kenwood NX5300 UHF to monitor these trunking sys?

No scanner works with encryption, if that's what you were asking.

 

[Hectomilan]

No scanner works with encryption, if that's what you were asking.

The system I'm listening to is not encrypted though. I'm not so savvy with Kenwood's trunking systems.

 

[dmfalk]

The Kenwood NX5300 is a transceiver (not just receiving, but transmitting, too), and not a scanner, like the SDS100. I'm not familiar enough with trunked transceivers to fully answer your question, but as long as you follow unencrypted communications, with some minor trunking programming (ie: programming not only the control channels used, but all the frequencies that are used by the system), you should be able to follow what you normally want to hear just fine. The '100 will trunktrack NXDN, but it's a bit more quirky than P25, where you only need to follow the control channel itself, as the scanner will automatically follow the voice frequencies on a P25 system. A scanner doesn't need or use system authorization for its use. If you do need authorization to follow a certain talkgroup, or to participate on it, keep the transceiver. That said, every receiver has its quirks, plus or minus, be it a transceiver or a scanner, and especially in how they deal with trunked systems.

 

[RichardKramer]

I see your squelch is set to 6; will the scanner still scan ok if you lower the setting to 2 or 3?

 

[Hectomilan]

The Kenwood NX5300 is a transceiver (not just receiving, but transmitting, too), and not a scanner, like the SDS100. I'm not familiar enough with trunked transceivers to fully answer your question, but as long as you follow unencrypted communications, with some minor trunking programming (ie: programming not only the control channels used, but all the frequencies that are used by the system), you should be able to follow what you normally want to hear just fine. The '100 will trunktrack NXDN, but it's a bit more quirky than P25, where you only need to follow the control channel itself, as the scanner will automatically follow the voice frequencies on a P25 system. A scanner doesn't need or use system authorization for its use. If you do need authorization to follow a certain talkgroup, or to participate on it, keep the transceiver. That said, every receiver has its quirks, plus or minus, be it a transceiver or a scanner, and especially in how they deal with trunked systems.

Thanks, great information here.

 

[dmfalk]

Setting it that high would require a very strong signal to pass the squelch. This is why most just leave the squelch set to 2.

 

[Hectomilan]

I see your squelch is set to 6; will the scanner still scan ok if you lower the setting to 2 or 3?

I didn’t think of that. I will try again tomorrow. I already loaded the favorites list like Enforcer52 explains. I’m sure no one is at the yard at the moment. I’ll
Keep you guys posted. Thanks for all your support and help guys !

 

[buddrousa]

Thanks you sir for the great information.! Dumb question can I Non affiliate with my Kenwood NX5300 UHF to monitor these trunking sys?

No the NX5000 Series will not do this.

 

[trentbob]

Thanks you sir for the great information.! Dumb question can I Non affiliate with my Kenwood NX5300 UHF to monitor these trunking sys?

Actually, if you're not familiar, they are not dumb questions, you were asked to provide more information and you did, with most people it's like pulling teeth.

You got some pretty smart people reply to your thread and you learned that this is not easy.

Do your homework, eventually, when other people ask the questions that you did.. you will be able to answer them the way we did.

It's not easy but when you get it it is rewarding.

 

[trentbob]

I see your squelch is set to 6; will the scanner still scan ok if you lower the setting to 2 or 3?

I was going to ask about that Rich when I saw the signal indicator all over the place and not picking up at all when rolling through the sites but I forgot to ask. Squelch should always be on two. It can be helpful on analog frequencies but..

 

[Ubbe]

Anyways my question is, the radio picks up audio, but my scanner does not only sometimes does the scanner pick up audio. What do you think is wrong?

For digital signals a receive level of -105dBm or worse will have too much noise to be able to be decoded properly.
In the scanners Display Options setting you can replace the RFSS ID or WACN field to instead say Digital Error Count which is a much more valuable indicator to have.

When trying different filter settings and/or IFX you use the error count to get as few errors as possible and a value of 5 or lower should be OK.

/Ubbe