• Effective immediately we will be deleting, without notice, any negative threads or posts that deal with the use of encryption and streaming of scanner audio.

    We've noticed a huge increase in rants and negative posts that revolve around agencies going to encryption due to the broadcasting of scanner audio on the internet. It's now worn out and continues to be the same recycled rants. These rants hijack the threads and derail the conversation. They no longer have a place anywhere on this forum other than in the designated threads in the Rants forum in the Tavern.

    If you violate these guidelines your post will be deleted without notice and an infraction will be issued. We are not against discussion of this issue. You just need to do it in the right place. For example:
    https://forums.radioreference.com/rants/224104-official-thread-live-audio-feeds-scanners-wait-encryption.html

SDS100: SDS100 Firmware 1.02.05a for Open Beta

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UPMan

Uniden Representative
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Arlington, TX
#1
I have some firmware for testing against some of the reported issues. Specifically, the items below.




  1. P25 systems holding on site with good signal, but RSSI indication blanks and many comms are missed.
  2. EDACS system missing many comms.
  3. Some Harris P25 systems missing many comms.
  4. Inconsistent backlight operation

To apply this test firmware, download http://info.uniden.com/twiki/pub/PartnerWeb/SDS100-beta/SDS-100_V1_02_05a.bin


Copy this file to the FIRMWARE folder on your SDS100, then reboot the scanner.


To report in this thread, follow this format:


Tested Against:
1. P25 systems holding on site with good signal, but RSSI indication blanks and many comms are missed.
2. EDACS system missing many comms.
3. Some Harris P25 systems missing many comms.
4. Inconsistent backlight operation
(keep only the lines above that apply to your test)


Results: Problem is fixed/not fixed (for each item you checked)


Link(s) to system(s) checked:



Discussion: (describe how you tested/what specific results were for each item you checked)




Log File(s):
<log file name> : Which system this log is from and which problem is still occurring.

To make a log, first set up to scan only a single system that exhibits the problem you are logging. Best approach is to put directly from the main database to a favorites list, then scan only that favorites list.


Then, turn off the scanner and turn it on while holding AVOID.


MENU --> SETTINGS --> SET DEBUG MODE --> SD Card (File)


Capture a log long enough to catch the problem.


MENU --> SETTINGS --> SET DEBUG MODE --> Off


The file is put in the debug folder. If you make multiple logs against different problems, keep track of the order in which you tested so that you describe each log file correctly.


I will ask admins to delete any post that either does not follow the above format or is not in a direct response to a followup from me so that this thread only contains reports (or clarifications/follow ups).
 

W2SJW

Senior Member
Moderator
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Nov 22, 2001
Messages
3,136
Location
Northwest NJ
#2
Tested Against:
4. Inconsistent backlight operation

Results: Problem is not fixed.

NJICS - https://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?sid=7021

Discussion: Performed a site-hold on the main simulcast site I live in. Scanned all known talkgroups carried by the site. Phase-I P25 displayed errant backlight behavior on 40-50% of the traffic. Phase-II displayed errant behavior 80-85% of the time, with a few instances of the backlight not coming on at all.

Log is too big to direct-post - http://w2sjw.com/debug_log_061518.zip

Entire log is of the NJICS test run.
 

W2GLD

Member
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Messages
534
Location
Pinckney, Michigan U.S.A.
#3
Tested Against:
2. EDACS system missing many comms.

Results: Appears Fixed

Ingham County, Michigan: https://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?sid=2849


Discussion: Performed a site-hold against their simulcast system with marginal signal (-100dBm) or there about. Was scanning the system in search mode and with a preprogrammed list of known talkgroups as well; the scanner was hitting on significantly more hits than ever and seems consistent when cross-checked against a Whistler TRX-1 and Unitrunker as well. I will post additional results over the weekend after extended testing.

Log file attached




Log File(s):
<log file name> : Which system this log is from and which problem is still occurring.
 

Attachments

Joined
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Messages
8,884
Location
PA
#4
Tested:
1. P25 systems holding on site with good signal, but RSSI indication blanks and many comms are missed.
Test system: https://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?sid=6451

Result:
Fixed/Significant Improvement.

I can receive Washington County, but signal is typically -95dBm to -110dBm. Beta firmware holds on the control channel better with squelch set at 3 than previous release firmware did with squelch set to 0.

Scanning weather and other analog channels, squelch set on 2 seems to match what the receiver can pull out of the static. Previously, squelch had to be set to 0 to hear all the channels the receiver could pick up. If squelch was set higher than 0, then scanning would skip 2 of 4 receivable channels.

Improvement also seen on weak signals from the Franklin County (https://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?sid=6803) Mt. Quirak site (-95 to -105dBm)--more consistently holding on control channel and switching to voice channel when a transmission is broadcast.

4. Inconsistent backlight operation
Result: Needs work.

Settings:
Squelch Backlight Timer: Open Squelch
Keypress Backlight Timer: Infinite
External Power: Backlight On

Result:
When plugged into USB power and screen is turned off by tapping the power key, screen turns off. When a transmission is received, the screen turns on, and does not shut off unless manually turned off by tapping the power button. If External Power is set to Backlight Off, then when the screen is manually shut off, the backlight will turn on and off as squelch opens and closes.

It would be nice if the SDS100 had seperate backligh settings for the power and every other key like the 436, so that you could set rotating the scroll knob or pressing a number key to turn the backlight on for 10 seconds, but tapping the power button would turn the screen on/off indefinitely.
 
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N6ML

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Messages
454
Location
SF Bay / Delta, CA
#5
Tested Against:
1. P25 systems holding on site with good signal, but RSSI indication blanks and many comms are missed.

Results:
1. Problem is not fixed

Link(s) to system(s) checked:
https://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?sid=5317 (CCCO East Simulcast site)

Discussion:

Even when holding on a TG, the control channel seems to drop out sporadically (Sys/RFSS/Site IDs disappear then reappear). The early part of the attached log was using the stock antenna, then I switched to an outdoor antenna, which improved RSSI considerably, but the sporadic dropouts continued, especially towards the end of the attached log.

It seems like the misses / latest starts MAY be a bit better than before, but need to observe some more.

Log File(s):
log0030411 : described above
 

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Joined
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Location
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#6
Even when holding on a TG, the control channel seems to drop out sporadically (Sys/RFSS/Site IDs disappear then reappear).
That's an invalid test. Holding on a talkgroup does NOT hold on a site, and the scanner will continue to scan all sites it thinks are in range looking for traffic on the held talkgroup.

Hold on a Site, not a talkgroup.
 

N6ML

Member
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Messages
454
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#7
That's an invalid test. Holding on a talkgroup does NOT hold on a site, and the scanner will continue to scan all sites it thinks are in range looking for traffic on the held talkgroup.

Hold on a Site, not a talkgroup.
OK, but I only have one site in my system, and one system in my FL, and one FL enabled .. and the hold time for the system is 100 seconds.

Also confirm that it's still happening with system, site and TG (channel) *all* on hold.
 

N6ML

Member
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SF Bay / Delta, CA
#9
No where near a computer until tomorrow. But this is what I am getting holding on a specific site. Is this normal? My x36hp models never dropped out this much.//cloud.tapatalk.com/s/5b2419692dc1c/20180615_155027.mp4
A longer sample would be nice, but that's basically the same as what I'm seeing.... but sporadically - it'll be solid for a couple of minutes, then spasm for a bit, then back to solid....
 

UPMan

Uniden Representative
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Messages
13,270
Location
Arlington, TX
#10
Settings:
Squelch Backlight Timer: Open Squelch
Keypress Backlight Timer: Infinite
External Power: Backlight On

Result:
When plugged into USB power and screen is turned off by tapping the power key, screen turns off. When a transmission is received, the screen turns on, and does not shut off unless manually turned off by tapping the power button. If External Power is set to Backlight Off, then when the screen is manually shut off, the backlight will turn on and off as squelch opens and closes.
Backlight Power: Backlight On
Has higher priority than the other settings. So, once some event triggers the b/l to come on, it is going to stay on. This is design, not bug.

The bug we were seeing people report is the b/l blinking on briefly (likely an encrypted comm that was quickly skipped) then not turning on for the next comm.
 

N6ML

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#11
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#12
Backlight Power: Backlight On
Has higher priority than the other settings. So, once some event triggers the b/l to come on, it is going to stay on. This is design, not bug.
Fair enough. Any possibility of getting separate duration settings for the power key and every other key, like the 436, or a working keypad lock, also like the 436?
 

W4KRR

Member
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Messages
2,878
Location
Coconut Creek, FL
#13
Issue number 1 (only) tested. (No EDACS or Harris within range).

Results: slight to no improvement. Seems to start out better but then goes back to old behavior. RSSI indicator seems more stable than previously, readings don't fluctuate up and down as much. Stronger signals indicated (-50 to -55 dBm instead of -110dBm). However, conversations still missed.

System tested: City of Fort Lauderdale Florida, P25 phase 1, even though database says it's a phase 2, it really isn't.

Here: https://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?sid=8214

I tested with scanner connected to an 800MHz specific antenna. Tried both rubber duck and an outside multiband scanner antenna.
 

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KB8KOJ

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Messages
141
Location
Centerville, Ohio
#14
1. RSSI blanks out and signal levels fluctuate 10-20 db when sitting still and with an acceptable strength.

Problem not fixed. But very close. (before rebooting and creating debug file it was fixed after several minutes of being on. After doing steps necessary to create file, the RSSI blanking issue was back). Have tried several reboots and issue is still present

MARCS site: https://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?siteId=27898

I tested with external and battery power. I was using a 800mhz Radio Shack rubber duck with supplied adapter. Voice channels are anywhere from -45 to -90 db depending on particular freqs of this system. I really consider my home a LSM nightmare on this system and it doesn't take too much to get decent SDR dongles or a Unication to burp while registering more than an acceptable signal level.

#edit

I have an additional observation. If I do a channel hold on a unused talkgroup the RSSI of the control channel will stay constant and there is no blanking. So mark that as a fix.

However site hold alone will keep RSSI jumping. In fact I can shut site hold off and channel hold alone will keep the control channel RSSI stable and not blanking.
 

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fmulder13

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Messages
164
Location
Minneapolis, MN
#15
1. Possibly some slight improvement, but issue not fixed.

Testing on log0037344:

This site:
https://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?siteId=9160

Tested from my apartment (near Ford Parkway and Cleveland Avenue, Saint Paul), using the RadioShack 800 MHz BNC antenna with the included adapter. Average RSSI was around -95dbm, but comms were missed, and talk groups flashed across the screen with no audio. DATA cut out and RSSI still blanked.

Testing on log0024411:

This site:
https://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?siteId=10819

Tested at the corner of St. Mary and University in Minneapolis with a Laird phantom 800mhz antenna mag mounted to the car. SDS took a while to even find a control channel. When it did, RSSI would be around -45dbm for a while, and then nothing at all, fluctuating back and forth between the two.
 

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Joined
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Messages
149
Location
San antonio Tx 78216
#16
I found Something interesting
I was having problems with Decoding Provoice

Then Yesterday The NXDN Support in software came out
I Read my 436 HP again and loaded it to the SDS100 again
(yes i tabed the 436 for 436 Read and SDS for SDS Upload each time)
and whala it got lots better reception

Reception it still a little poor on EDACS/Provoice

I Don't Know if the NXDN Fields didn't line up and caused problems
Before the support was in place

Research is still needed to improve the reception

the battery seams to play a issues with provoice when its at lower voltages
IE to the point of no provoice decoding at all and jumping around for control channel

on full recharged battery radio Reception is good

the radio is overall a very nice radio and well designed
 
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#18
One thing to clarify: when looking at issue #1, it is normal for the RSSI, NAC, SYS ID, Site ID, and D-ERROR to blink on and off, or change to "---" every second or two as the scanner does its normal housekeeping whatever.

BUT

THE FREQUENCY WILL NOT CHANGE IF THE SCANNER IS WORKING CORRECTLY AND YOU ARE HOLDING ON A SITE, AND THERE ARE NO ACTIVE TRANSMISSIONS.
If you are holding on a site and there is no traffic, the frequency will show the active control channel, and will not flicker, jitter, jink, jank, tweak, freak, or fluctuate while the scanner is locked on the control channel and no transmissions are active.

If the scanner detects a transmission and tries to play it, you will see the frequency change to the voice channel. If the transmission is encrypted, you will see the talkgroup ID and name flicker on the display momentarily, then go away and the frequency change back to the control channel. While the encrypted transmission is in progress, you will see the scanner flicker back to the active talkgroup every second or two as it rechecks to see if the transmission is still encrypted. If another transmission starts in the meantime, the scanner will switch to the unencrypted transmission (assuming the appropriate service types are enabled, etc).

What indicates a problem is when the frequency starts changing, but you don't see a talkgroup flicker on the display, you see a talkgroup flicker on the display that you know does not carry encrypted traffic, or a talkgroup shows up for a second or more, but you hear no audio. That indicates that the scanner lost the control channel and going hunting for an alternate (frequency changed, but no talkgroup displayed, even momentarily), or has detected a transmission but for whatever reason is failing to play the traffic (unencrypted talkgroup flickering on the display, or showing on the display, but no audio).

If the RSSI value changes by more than 10dBm while the scanner is on the same frequency and the antenna is not moving, that is also an issue. But indicators other than the frequency blinking periodically during a site hold is normal.
 

waynedc

Member
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Messages
53
Location
Marana, Arizona
#19
Tested Against:
1. P25 systems holding on site with good signal, but RSSI indication blanks and many comms are missed.

Results: Problem is not fixed

Link(s) to system(s) checked:
https://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?sid=7735

Discussion:
I am using Upman's single system, single site, single TG .hpe file posted in another topic. However, I changed the system to PCWIN, the site to Simulcast B, and the TG to TPD Team 2. Using this favorites list only, I get the following:

While the SDS100 is held on the talkgroup, it performs perfectly - solid consistent signal, perfect audio. no dropped transmissions, only the NAC flashing. ACTUALLY AWESOME !!!

While the SDS100 is held on the site, it misses numerous transmissions - solid but varying signal strength, perfect audio, numerous missed transmissions, and the following are flashing almost every second - Sys ID, RFSS ID, WACN, NAC, RSSI, DATA, signal bars. I describe this as "coming late to the party" which causes you to miss short or half transmissions. If I didn't have a BK on the system, I wouldn't know what I am missing but I would definitely be missing something...

Log File(s):
Attached - log0048073
 

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waynedc

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#20
One thing to clarify: when looking at issue #1, it is normal for the RSSI, NAC, SYS ID, Site ID, and D-ERROR to blink on and off, or change to "---" every second or two as the scanner does its normal housekeeping whatever.
Jon,

In my test as described formally below, the single site has only one TG - what is the details of this "normal housekeeping" I see routinely mentioned?

With a single site and single TG, I can't see anything else for the radio to be off doing or looking for...

Wayne
 
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