Seeking Advice

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FireSR_JRE

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San Antonio, TX
I work with a small non-profit volunteer group (Fire Scene Rehab) in San Antonio that provides Rehab Services for Fire and Police at extended scenes. We currently use some old Macom radios as talk-arounds for on scene communication but range is very limited. We are seeking an inexpensive alternative for car to car (during response) and on-scene communications. Can anyone suggest an alternative and affordable solution? We are donation supported and funds for equipment and licensing are limited.
Thanks.
 

WB9YBM

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Since you didn't mention the range you need, it's a bit challenging to recommend something specific. Have you considered GMRS? Or maybe you'll have to go so far as to get business-band (just thinking out loud here)?

Also if you need to do it low cost, maybe there's a radio shop that'd be willing to lease you the equipment to keep the purchase costs down?
 

2101

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FireSR_JRE i am familiar with your operation and in the "area". give us a few days to get over the issues we are facing currently with the weather and then holler at me. we may be able to help. just private message me your contact info.

thanks
 

mmckenna

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Can anyone suggest an alternative and affordable solution? We are donation supported and funds for equipment and licensing are limited.
Thanks.

I know this won't be the sexy solution you are looking for, but "donation supported" means to us that funds are very tight. The cost of good commercial two way radios is very high. Depending on how much coverage/range you want, that's probably going to mean a repeater.

Mobile radios, installation, proper antennas, etc. I'd probably set aside at minimum $500 per radio.
A repeater is going to cost you anywhere from $1000 to $10,000 depending on the equipment needed, new versus used, reliability level/backup power, etc.
A repeater site, unless you can score one for free, is going to be a few hundred a month. I've only been to San Antonio a few times, so I'm thinking a roof of a tall building.

So, you are looking at something in the $10,000 and up to get started. Add in periodic maintenance on the system (required if you want it to work reliably), figure a few hundred per year.

A better/cheaper solution would be to use either one of the many Push To Talk applications available for smart phones. Cost is zero to very low. You'd use the cellular infrastructure and have coverage anywhere your phone worked.

If you want the look of a commercial radio, there are a number of LTE handsets that look more like a traditional LMR radio. Looks like a radio, acts like a radio, but uses the cellular infrastructure. That means you'd pay for some amount of LTE data service from a provider of your choice. Not telephone service, but strictly data service. Think something along the lines of the old NexTel service with something that looks more like a small walkie talkie. Mobile radio type units are an option.

Other option would be to contact a local reputable two way radio shop. Most of them run their own repeater networks. You'd still need to buy/rent the radios, and pay a monthly service fee.

Short answer:
It's not cheap. If you want cheap, go cellular.
 

2101

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ah i forgot about that issue. thanks doc...feel free to email me at chief@newberlinvfd.com. Again, we are a bit busy with other things right now but will be glad to assist when things settle down.
 

FireSR_JRE

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San Antonio, TX
I know this won't be the sexy solution you are looking for, but "donation supported" means to us that funds are very tight. The cost of good commercial two way radios is very high. Depending on how much coverage/range you want, that's probably going to mean a repeater.

Mobile radios, installation, proper antennas, etc. I'd probably set aside at minimum $500 per radio.
A repeater is going to cost you anywhere from $1000 to $10,000 depending on the equipment needed, new versus used, reliability level/backup power, etc.
A repeater site, unless you can score one for free, is going to be a few hundred a month. I've only been to San Antonio a few times, so I'm thinking a roof of a tall building.

So, you are looking at something in the $10,000 and up to get started. Add in periodic maintenance on the system (required if you want it to work reliably), figure a few hundred per year.

A better/cheaper solution would be to use either one of the many Push To Talk applications available for smart phones. Cost is zero to very low. You'd use the cellular infrastructure and have coverage anywhere your phone worked.

If you want the look of a commercial radio, there are a number of LTE handsets that look more like a traditional LMR radio. Looks like a radio, acts like a radio, but uses the cellular infrastructure. That means you'd pay for some amount of LTE data service from a provider of your choice. Not telephone service, but strictly data service. Think something along the lines of the old NexTel service with something that looks more like a small walkie talkie. Mobile radio type units are an option.

Other option would be to contact a local reputable two way radio shop. Most of them run their own repeater networks. You'd still need to buy/rent the radios, and pay a monthly service fee.

Short answer:
It's not cheap. If you want cheap, go cellular.
Thanks, we do currently use Zello for some of our communications, and are considering GMRS as a possibility. Just looking for some other options, but yeah, can't really afford the repeater options.
 

mmckenna

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Thanks, we do currently use Zello for some of our communications, and are considering GMRS as a possibility. Just looking for some other options, but yeah, can't really afford the repeater options.

GMRS would be a good option if everyone got their license. You'd still want a repeater and the costs will be similar. Drawback is, GMRS is a shared service, so in a big city like San Antonio, there'd be no protection from other users.

I'd recommend the LTE based radios that are hitting the market. Better bang for your buck and will give you more coverage than you'll ever need.


And there's a ton of others.
 

TexScan780D

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I work with a small non-profit volunteer group (Fire Scene Rehab) in San Antonio that provides Rehab Services for Fire and Police at extended scenes. We currently use some old Macom radios as talk-arounds for on scene communication but range is very limited. We are seeking an inexpensive alternative for car to car (during response) and on-scene communications. Can anyone suggest an alternative and affordable solution? We are donation supported and funds for equipment and licensing are limited.
Thanks.
Is your group like a Citizens Fire Acadamy Alumni which the Fire Department sponsers?
 

FireSR_JRE

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San Antonio, TX
Is your group like a Citizens Fire Acadamy Alumni which the Fire Department sponsers?
No, we grew out of a Volunteer Fire Dept. We used to get some support from the County, but are no longer connected with them. We rely on donations and fundraising for our operating expenses and the water and Gatorade we provide.
 

Alliance01TX

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FYI - We have a City Fire-Rehab unit (CERT) and we have four (4) working options in our CERT Teams & do Mutual-Aid as well.

Here are options we have:
- Using local Ham Radio Repeaters (Tech FCC Lic Required!) - Consider getting the team into Ham Radio and Learn/Test & get FCC Licensed NOTE that this is typically used in initial response & we use SIMPLEX on FIRE GROUND or in a SAR (Silver Alert, etc..).
- MURS - we have a hand full of MURS Radio's (2Watts) we can use on Fire Ground - Good solution - (No Lic Required)
- GMRS - Ok as a last option, but unless you do a GMRS repeater, its just OK for Fire-Ground use in my view (Check Lic Requirements for Repeater Lic Required) Limited range on handhelds....
- City 700/800 P25/Conventional - We have 4 Motorola Fire Radios (as issued to our Fire department) - Rarely used expect for comms with Alarm-Dispatch typically..

If you have a lot of folks that are spread out responding to a Tone Out / Page-Out the best use-case in my view is find a local Ham Radio Club and join, and many have folks that will have FCC Technician Class Course and do the Testings to get an FCC Tech License. Then, get an agreement with the local area(s) Ham Club (Trustee) to utilize for specific use...We have our EOC, and a couple fire stations also equipped with FTM-100's as well as out CERT Truck (old EMS Box Truck) and the Ham Radio Repeaters are a great option in my opinion...This is for backup if the City radios ever (unlikely) had an outage or issues - Our City is part of the Ft. Worth Regional Radio System...

Finally, if you research CERT (Federal side.... Community Emergency Response Team) ) you can perhaps formally start a CERT Team and this may (or may-not) allow your team to get into both the Federal and State / Local "GRANT Money" areas to get your high quality gear at no cost....Just a few ideas to ponder and send me a PM if you want to discuss the concepts. A city next to used Federal Grant money to buy Icom HF, and several HT ICOM Radios, etc...just need to find a person that has deep experience in Federal Grant Writing...

Bill
 

IAmSixNine

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The idea of Zello on PTT type radios that was mentioned a few replies up would be a great option for you guys..
 

FireSR_JRE

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Messages
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Location
San Antonio, TX
Don't forget any licensing requirements for the frequency(s) you end up with.
That is another issue we are looking at. Thanks.
FYI - We have a City Fire-Rehab unit (CERT) and we have four (4) working options in our CERT Teams & do Mutual-Aid as well.

Here are options we have:
- Using local Ham Radio Repeaters (Tech FCC Lic Required!) - Consider getting the team into Ham Radio and Learn/Test & get FCC Licensed NOTE that this is typically used in initial response & we use SIMPLEX on FIRE GROUND or in a SAR (Silver Alert, etc..).
- MURS - we have a hand full of MURS Radio's (2Watts) we can use on Fire Ground - Good solution - (No Lic Required)
- GMRS - Ok as a last option, but unless you do a GMRS repeater, its just OK for Fire-Ground use in my view (Check Lic Requirements for Repeater Lic Required) Limited range on handhelds....
- City 700/800 P25/Conventional - We have 4 Motorola Fire Radios (as issued to our Fire department) - Rarely used expect for comms with Alarm-Dispatch typically..

If you have a lot of folks that are spread out responding to a Tone Out / Page-Out the best use-case in my view is find a local Ham Radio Club and join, and many have folks that will have FCC Technician Class Course and do the Testings to get an FCC Tech License. Then, get an agreement with the local area(s) Ham Club (Trustee) to utilize for specific use...We have our EOC, and a couple fire stations also equipped with FTM-100's as well as out CERT Truck (old EMS Box Truck) and the Ham Radio Repeaters are a great option in my opinion...This is for backup if the City radios ever (unlikely) had an outage or issues - Our City is part of the Ft. Worth Regional Radio System...

Finally, if you research CERT (Federal side.... Community Emergency Response Team) ) you can perhaps formally start a CERT Team and this may (or may-not) allow your team to get into both the Federal and State / Local "GRANT Money" areas to get your high quality gear at no cost....Just a few ideas to ponder and send me a PM if you want to discuss the concepts. A city next to used Federal Grant money to buy Icom HF, and several HT ICOM Radios, etc...just need to find a person that has deep experience in Federal Grant Writing...

Bill
Thanks, I know our Chief was CERT certified, and we recently got a new member with Grand Writing experience. It's something to look into.
 

RADIO-007

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San antonio
l3harris
BeOn® Mobile Application
.APK Android Radio access
.IPA Apple Radio access
.EXE Windows access

"SAFD ALERT"
access and fire Grounds
"not to key up" access
in this app there may also be create
a non radio tac Ch for ESR
Like Zello SAFD May Bring up the CH To live radio by a Patch

This may be simple Resorce

I dont think Cheif hood takes fond of ESR-Group Yet !

But if they had there own Station
a Truck has 4 man crew the cost vs Vol/ESR Rehab members are Best option not to mention Equipment maint and cordnation cost a Budget

This group ESR saves tax payers and provides a Service to help return Fire/Police back to Service
or mission at hand

The above said
ESR helps to save property and life by max SAFD and Law Enf Resorces. "Return to service"


We as San antonio Bexar
need to be a more Public City
Not people vs public safety..
ESR Shows Member are behind this statment there time is free

This Covid/Winter Storm show
how resorces can go to Zero very fast
 
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TexScan780D

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No, we grew out of a Volunteer Fire Dept. We used to get some support from the County, but are no longer connected with them. We rely on donations and fundraising for our operating expenses and the water and Gatorade we provide.
This is what the Midland Citizen Fire Alumni Assocation (MCFAAA) was doing. The MFD had a retired ambulance fixed up for us as a rehab vehicle, we had several 50-gallon coolers loaded with ice to cool water bottles and Gatorade which we would take to the fire for the firemans. At first, we brought 6 GE EDACS radios off Ebay, then the 800 rebanding came and exchange them for new radios, the rehab vehicle also had a Fire Department radio. We were also assocated with the Fire Corps, www.nvfc.org/programs/firecorps/
 
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