Setting up Trunked Radio To VHF Simulcast

[jeepsandradios]

Brian - I'm curious to know why you have discounted Broadcastify as a possible solution (noting that you do provide some feeds).

As a retired fire chief I can feel you pain from experience. When your dispatching service is provided by another entity, getting them to do things how you want and as quickly as you'd like them done can be frustrating. If things get real bad, everyone works for someone. Sometimes when the cause is just, correct and important, going over heads may be an option.

We tried this becuase we do provide a feed, however our cell service sucks in our area, and most importantly the guys (and gals) carry a Minitor pager already.

An item that will work fine is here -

Simplex Repeater Controller RT SRC1 for UV 5R UV5R Extend to 120 Second | eBay

I plugged mine into the speaker jack of the scanner and made a cable to plug into our mobile radio. IT works fine in band (however we are only transmitting 10 watts on the channel). It goes for $75 - 100 depending on day. Its simple and cheap.

 

[mrweather]

Brian - I'm curious to know why you have discounted Broadcastify as a possible solution (noting that you do provide some feeds).

I would think a 30 second delay in receiving the "retransmitted" audio would not be acceptable to a public safety organization. It's probably acceptable for hobbyist listeners but 30 seconds could mean the difference between life and death to a first responder.

 

[quarterwave]

I don't have a base radio on the P25 Phase II System. We were trying to avoid spending $5k on a radio when the PSR800 we already have picks up the radio system flawlessly, The County P25 system is on our property.

I think what i need is a VOX activated COR. So when the scanner receives the signal it transmits the audio and somehow activates a relay to key the COR on the transmitting VHF Radio. Its late and i'm not thinking straight.

I will do some more research in the morning.

Sorry, I'm not trying to be a "hater" or "spoiler" at all, but as someone who has worked in professional, commercial and public safety radio....all of this is irresponsible and unprofessional at the least.

I wouldn't do this on a private system, let alone a public safety system. If you say the county has nothing to do with your fire and ems operations, and you don't have 700MHz radios...then what is on the 700MHz radios that you need to be cross patching? If you are dispatched on VHF, have an "operations" channel on VHF does that mean the county dispatches you, and that's it, or do you have your own dispatch?

Essentially, you haven't told us what your department does on 700MHz, but you did say you didn't have 700MHz radios to use. This is confusing.

If this is for legit, necessary use, then I would think some grant money or the county could help out with getting it set up, professionally, interfacing a patch between a 700 system (real) radio and your VHF base, which is also remotely accessible for setup/knockdown in case of a problem.
I have had people want to cross patch other counties, and even their own county Sheriff into a channel on their system...and it wasn't because they needed it, it was because they were nosey, and their scanner didn't hear all the action they wanted to hear. Not saying this is your case at all, but this "rig" isn't sounding too legit so far.

As far as spectrum efficiency, if everyone keeps putting in these trunked systems in the name of improvement and progress, but they won't give up the VHF (that apparently wasn't working for them anymore) and on top of that want to cross patch the systems together...all we are doing is making a big mess, and taking up twice the spectrum, not using it more effectively. Cross patches should be transitional and/or temporary/as needed only. (This does not apply to interoperational/mutual aid type channels, such as a Statewide fireground / NPSPAC, etc.)

So what do you get from the 700MHz system, if the county has nothing to do with you, and you are on VHF now?

 

[DJ11DLN]

I would think a 30 second delay in receiving the "retransmitted" audio would not be acceptable to a public safety organization. It's probably acceptable for hobbyist listeners but 30 seconds could mean the difference between life and death to a first responder.

Getting the info 30 seconds late is far better than not getting it at all. One county dispatch in my area has something like this, though the delay is about 5 seconds, and both are on their VHF-Hi fire dispatch freq. After the tone-out traffic ends, I can hear a weak, about 2 bars, repeat of the tones and traffic. It only repeats when tones are set. It evidently covers some areas they have issues with and I've been trying to find out more about it because my county has similar issues...and our powers-that-be are about as receptive to getting it fixed as the OP's are. :roll:

 

[Project25_MASTR]

I'm trying to remember how the local county system is set up. If I remember correctly, county fire (which is also ems) is on a vhf system. Their dispatch has the ability to cross the city's 800 MHz system as the city sometimes will request assistance from the county. The sheriff's office on the other hand has a conventional VHF system, an encrypted VHF system as well as the 800 MHz system. In short, it's a mess. Not to mention all of the local hospitals (and their ambulances) run on analog UHF systems.

I've seen what the OP would like done, I'd say go to the counties radio shop and ask for a radio with a blown final and use that as the receiver. Either way, it's still a mess.

 

[ofd8001]

I would think a 30 second delay in receiving the "retransmitted" audio would not be acceptable to a public safety organization. It's probably acceptable for hobbyist listeners but 30 seconds could mean the difference between life and death to a first responder.

Yesp, as a responder I'd like for it to be immediate, but it is what it is. Hearing something 30 seconds late is the alternative, in our case, to not hearing it at all.

Trunked radio systems were a god-send to us. Communications are significantly better with our new system. But trying to monitor them, unless you have a system radio, is a pain.

Brian:

That makes sense. Have you fussed at the cell service providers and see if they can add a site to improve coverage?

One of our neighboring fire departments did what you describe (patching ops channels to a frequency). But they went the Broadcastify route as the patch wasn't too effective, however we are in a metro area with decent cell phone coverage.

 

[quarterwave]

Getting the info 30 seconds late is far better than not getting it at all. One county dispatch in my area has something like this, though the delay is about 5 seconds, and both are on their VHF-Hi fire dispatch freq. After the tone-out traffic ends, I can hear a weak, about 2 bars, repeat of the tones and traffic. It only repeats when tones are set. It evidently covers some areas they have issues with and I've been trying to find out more about it because my county has similar issues...and our powers-that-be are about as receptive to getting it fixed as the OP's are. :roll:

These internet deals are cute, in a hobby kind of way...but in no way a real fix for something.

Not only do you have variable internet latency, because you are using the public internet and not a private or dedicated connection...you are using a DSL or Cable on one end for the uplink, a processor and server somewhere in the world, and then a return path to a phone via cell data. Like swiss cheese when it comes to failure points and reliability.

Some department near me tried this a while back, and quit it when they found out it wasn't reliable. Plus the company that "provided" it, essentially had YOU provide the scanner, computer and DSL connection to send it to them...or they ripped it off Broadcastify for free if you had a local feed (only let audio through when your two-tone page went out) and fed it to the subscribers phones as pushed data and/or email with audio clips....and the subscriber (dept.) paid like $50 a month for it. Seems like quite a racket to me.

Nothing but a toy. Not a real world solution.

 

[sfd119]

Yesp, as a responder I'd like for it to be immediate, but it is what it is. Hearing something 30 seconds late is the alternative, in our case, to not hearing it at all.

Trunked radio systems were a god-send to us. Communications are significantly better with our new system. But trying to monitor them, unless you have a system radio, is a pain.

Brian:

That makes sense. Have you fussed at the cell service providers and see if they can add a site to improve coverage?

One of our neighboring fire departments did what you describe (patching ops channels to a frequency). But they went the Broadcastify route as the patch wasn't too effective, however we are in a metro area with decent cell phone coverage.

We have the same problem. The issue is being out in the sticks, you just don't get service. It's not easy.

I also wouldn't tout Broadcastify as a reliable option. Feeds can go down, Internet can go down, and we all know that Broadcastify/RR goes down. They want to use their pagers, not their smart phones.

 

[kb0rpj]

Im honestly a little confused, why again cant the dispatch just patch the 700mhz console to the VHF? if the dispatch is hearing you on VHF and is also dispatching on 700mhz for you, they should be able to patch it at the console.

 

[ShawnInPaso]

I noticed the OP's county has a lot of their communication capabilities and configuration shown online. This paragraph caught my eye:

"Scanners - Radio transmissions on the NEXTGEN Fire/EMS Dispatch Talk Channel will be able to be
received on existing scanners. All existing radio scanners can continue to be used for FIRE &
EMS Page Alerting purposes as all communications on the Fire/EMS Dispatch Talk Channel will
still be broadcasted over 154.980 Mhz Frequency. Since the NEXTGEN system is a digital system,
talk groups and encrypted operations cannot be processed by analog scanners.
"

Source: http://www.co.saint-marys.md.us/est/NEXTEGEN Scanner Bulletin.pdf

If I'm understanding this correctly, the comms the OP wants to hear are broadcast on 154.980. It would be interesting to know if this is the same freq as the volunteer fireman use. If so, what gives with the statements above? And, if the pagers are not on 154.980 then it would seem plausible for each volunteer to buy a cheap portable scanner to listen to the non-P25 comms as rebroadcast on VHF.



Also have a look here:
St. Mary's County

 

[N8IAA]

Having read the PDF, they say that using a PSR-700, or a Pro-107 will work on the P-25 system. Which, by the way, even though listed as a Phase II, is operating as a Phase I system. It is 800MHz and not 700MHz.
My thoughts are that there is a lot of misinformation going on in St. Marys county.
Get some cheap Baofengs, Wouxon, whatever, and put in your paging frequency.
If your county is dispatching Fire/EMS on the new system, it doesn't make sense that you have no radios to use.
Larry

 

[mule1075]

Having read the PDF, they say that using a PSR-700, or a Pro-107 will work on the P-25 system. Which, by the way, even though listed as a Phase II, is operating as a Phase I system. It is 800MHz and not 700MHz.
My thoughts are that there is a lot of misinformation going on in St. Marys county.
Get some cheap Baofengs, Wouxon, whatever, and put in your paging frequency.
If your county is dispatching Fire/EMS on the new system, it doesn't make sense that you have no radios to use.
Larry

Are you sure in saying the P-25 system will work on the 700 and 107? Paging on vhf yes P-25 system no.PSR-800 and Pro-18 is what I think you meant.

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[DisasterGuy]

I know where the OP is coming from. They operate on 800 but like most areas their dispatch talkgroup is hard patched to a 4 site VHF channel for paging. He is looking to be able to scan their operations TGs and feed that over VHF so they can listen to the calls using Channel 2 of their pagers. There are several places this is done (professionally).


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[iamhere300]

If all you are trying to do is monitor the ops channels, and not the dispatch channel, then I don't consider that to be mission essential. If that is the case, just take any old Repeater Controller, and set it up for VOX operation.

Or, even better, sling some solder and use the activity light on the scanner for COR.

It is not rocket science. I do think a dedicated radio for the reciever would be better, but you do what you can. As long as you are not depending on this for your dispatch you should be fine.

I am sure I have a repeater controller around here, get me a formal request on department letterhead and I would probably just send it to you.

Wait. I just realized where you are. You boys got more money in the departments than Carters got Liver Pills. Controllers are cheap.

Now, if you want to trade old surplus fire equipment to needy departments down here in southern missouri, where departments operate on annual budgets of less than 10k quite often, then we can talk - I got lots of radio equipment, and I got lots of needy departments.

 

[N8IAA]

Are you sure in saying the P-25 system will work on the 700 and 107? Paging on vhf yes P-25 system no.PSR-800 and Pro-18 is what I think you meant.

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No. What I meant was that you can't hear P-25 with the two analog scanners THEY said was possible. There was no mention of using them on the VHF paging.
Larry

 

[krokus]

In my county, our dispatch is simulcast on VHF, from the dispatch site. The issue we run in to, for those monitoring on VHF, is when the dispatcher does not repeat information said by units on MPSCS.

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