HT1000 Should I get some HT1000s?

[thorosaurus]

I'm wanting to get some radios for SHTF for me and my family to use. We have a very large piece of property in the Ozarks, and I want a way for us to communicate if the cell towers go down. Would also be nice to have some to give to the neighbors since we all look after each other's property. I'm interested in the VHF version. I want to program them on the MURS frequencies so we can practice with them without having to get amateur licenses.

What attracts me most to the HT1000s is I've heard that they can be modified with something that will make transmissions incomprehensible to anyone outside the network (Another related question: does that constitute encryption, requiring a business license?). That's my main requirement is I don't want anyone with a Baofeng to be able to eavesdrop on us, or worse try and triangulate our location. I figure the average person wouldn't even notice intermittent static, much less bother thinking about it if they did.

Another thing I'm attracted to is the absence of buttons. I want to be able to just hand the radio to someone who's never used one and have them be able to just pick it up and start using it without having to give them a crash course first. And of course I want something rugged that's not going to bite the dust if it gets rained on or dropped in a mud puddle.

I'm aware of the difficulties in programming them, and I think I can figure it out. Finding an old 90s computer with a sub GHz CPU should be easy enough since they built things to last back then, and the programming cables seem abundant on Ebay. And of course, mainly, I'm interested in the price. I don't have ten grand to drop on modern business radios with all those features I've mentioned. So I would be willing to put in the extra work to program them if I can do it for about 100 dollars per radio all in.

 

[thorosaurus]

Well hell, I didn't realize there were people who would program them for you. Just saw a guy on Ebay who will do it for 8 bucks a radio. So I guess that's no longer an issue.

 

[tyler3328]

I would look into a unit the is FPP at minimum. So in case you meet another group that you’re interested in you can program and match their freqs without a computer. The xts2500/5000 with fpp is super available You can program your freqs with adp encryption and leave other channels open for other options. Or the XPR series using TRBO. and relatively cheap nowadays

 

[WPXS472]

The HT1000 is a good radio. They are fairly rugged, and simple to use. Best thing is that they are cheap. I don't know for sure, but I don't think they were ever approved for narrow band. So, no more commercial use. I am not aware of any encryption options for them. If you want something no one else can listen to, I would go with some of the DTR series radios. They are 900 MHz spread spectrum, and are next to impossible for anyone but government agencies to monitor. They might not have the range you desire, though I have seen lots of enthusiastic posts regarding how well they work. They didn't work out for my needs, but I seem to be in the minority with regard to that.

 

[thorosaurus]

I would look into a unit the is FPP at minimum. So in case you meet another group that you’re interested in you can program and match their freqs without a computer. The xts2500/5000 with fpp is super available You can program your freqs with adp encryption and leave other channels open for other options. Or the XPR series using TRBO. and relatively cheap nowadays

Is the software for XTS2500 readily available?

 

[thorosaurus]

Hey, what about the XTS3000? It looks like they're cheaper than the XTS2500 for some reason.

 

[kayn1n32008]

The XTS3000 doesn’t do FPP and they are just about the same vintage as the HT1000.
Better off with the XTS2500/5000

 

[mmckenna]

I've noticed a lot of people show up here using the "SHTF" claim as a reason to not do things right, or not follow FCC rules. I don't get it. SHTF isn't carte blanch to do whatever you want. In a —true— SHTF situation, you do whatever you need to save life/property. Lack of planning, lack of preparation, and lack of common sense do not constitute "SHTF".

Stuff hitting the fan or not, FCC rules are still a thing in the USA, and you'll find that most of the people that know what they are doing are going to point that out.

Motorola HT-1000's, XTS-2500's and XTS-3000's don't meet the FCC requirements for MURS for multiple reasons.
To clear up some of the misconceptions above,
HT-1000's will do narrow band. Some models will not do the new splinter channels.
Voice inversion scrambler boards were an after market option, but since these radios are so old, finding them may be difficult.
Scrambling is not legal on MURS.
Scrambling will not magically hide your transmissions, just make them slightly harder to understand.
While I doubt anyone is going to use radio direction finding equipment to track you down, scrambling will not prevent this.

If you are really concerned about people listening in on your communications, you need to use something non-RF based, like dedicated telephone lines between your neighbors.

If you want to run scramblers, or digital with encryption, then you are going to need FCC licenses on a business frequency. It's not hard to do, and will keep you on the right side of things.

Also, of "SHTF" use, using decades old radios bought off e-Bay isn't a good approach. Sort of like buying a used car sight unseen. You might get one in good shape, or you may get one that was abused. Yeah, HT-1000's can be good radios for hobby use, and there's still a few public safety agencies using them. But if you want reliable communications, buying radios off e-Bay without having any knowledge of what you are buying is not a good approach.

You also need to have some realistic expectations about coverage. Not sure how far it is between your neighbors, but you need to figure out what is going to work. VHF is often the better choice for use in the mountains, but it isn't going to work in 100% of the situations. Repeaters can fix this, but that can be extremely costly and you won't get away with a repeater running on MURS, and you won't be able to sneak on onto a VHF frequency pair unnoticed.

You've also got to look at your budget. Buying a bunch of cheap used radios off E-bay is probably going to lead to disappointment. You really need to plan this out as a system, not buying individual radios and then expecting everything to work the way you want.

There's a lot of us here that would be more than happy to help you, but you've got to give us some useful info to work with. Area you need to cover, what your budget is, what your technical skill level is, and what your true use plan is. Anything short of that is going to result in people taking wild guesses and feeding you less than useful information.

 

[jhooten]

Save some money and hassle while having a perfectly legal brand new radio with a warrant:

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[thorosaurus]

I've noticed a lot of people show up here using the "SHTF" claim as a reason to not do things right, or not follow FCC rules. I don't get it. SHTF isn't carte blanch to do whatever you want. In a —true— SHTF situation, you do whatever you need to save life/property. Lack of planning, lack of preparation, and lack of common sense do not constitute "SHTF".

Stuff hitting the fan or not, FCC rules are still a thing in the USA, and you'll find that most of the people that know what they are doing are going to point that out.

Motorola HT-1000's, XTS-2500's and XTS-3000's don't meet the FCC requirements for MURS for multiple reasons.
To clear up some of the misconceptions above,
HT-1000's will do narrow band. Some models will not do the new splinter channels.
Voice inversion scrambler boards were an after market option, but since these radios are so old, finding them may be difficult.
Scrambling is not legal on MURS.
Scrambling will not magically hide your transmissions, just make them slightly harder to understand.
While I doubt anyone is going to use radio direction finding equipment to track you down, scrambling will not prevent this.

If you are really concerned about people listening in on your communications, you need to use something non-RF based, like dedicated telephone lines between your neighbors.

If you want to run scramblers, or digital with encryption, then you are going to need FCC licenses on a business frequency. It's not hard to do, and will keep you on the right side of things.

Also, of "SHTF" use, using decades old radios bought off e-Bay isn't a good approach. Sort of like buying a used car sight unseen. You might get one in good shape, or you may get one that was abused. Yeah, HT-1000's can be good radios for hobby use, and there's still a few public safety agencies using them. But if you want reliable communications, buying radios off e-Bay without having any knowledge of what you are buying is not a good approach.

You also need to have some realistic expectations about coverage. Not sure how far it is between your neighbors, but you need to figure out what is going to work. VHF is often the better choice for use in the mountains, but it isn't going to work in 100% of the situations. Repeaters can fix this, but that can be extremely costly and you won't get away with a repeater running on MURS, and you won't be able to sneak on onto a VHF frequency pair unnoticed.

You've also got to look at your budget. Buying a bunch of cheap used radios off E-bay is probably going to lead to disappointment. You really need to plan this out as a system, not buying individual radios and then expecting everything to work the way you want.

There's a lot of us here that would be more than happy to help you, but you've got to give us some useful info to work with. Area you need to cover, what your budget is, what your technical skill level is, and what your true use plan is. Anything short of that is going to result in people taking wild guesses and feeding you less than useful information.

Area is about 1 square mile, but, after encryption/voice scrambling, range is my primary concern. The farther the better.

It's in the hills, so probably not any different from being in the mountains. I've heard that MURS frequencies do well in hilly terrain.

I do realize that encryption/scrambling won't prevent someone from being able to triangulate the signal, but it would probably prevent them from caring enough to bother. Maybe they would just assume it was business/public safety and leave it alone. The main thing is they won't be able to eavesdrop and surmise that there's a group of well supplied people in their backyard.

Basically what I want to do is create a secure network for my family and neighbors that can stand on its own without any infrastructure besides a solar panel and some charging docks. That's why I'm not really concerned about ham is if the cell phones go down, in all likelihood so would the repeaters. I'll get a few little Yaesus for reaching out to strangers, and maybe a base station, but right now I'm mostly concerned about having a way to talk to my close family and friends in my immediate area, in a way that can't be overheard by random strangers with Baofengs.

As far as the potential of getting a bad radio, I'm planning on accumulating about ten or so. So if one craps out, no biggie.

I would really like to hear more about the voice scrambling boards for the HT1000s. If they're affordable then that's still a viable option. If not, then I guess I'll have to start looking at P25 surplus radios.

 

[thorosaurus]

Save some money and hassle while having a perfectly legal brand new radio with a warrant:

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I've heard that the Baofengs are buggy. I've heard everyone say to forget about them and go straight to Yaesu.

But will either one of those brands do any kind of encryption on the business band? Without costing a fortune?

 

[mmckenna]

You'll draw unwanted attention to yourself if you try too hard to hide it. Running voice inversion scrambling (old technology) on MUR or some random channel, is going to make someone wonder what you are up to. A -lot- of radios include basic voice inversion scrambling, so it's not hard to decode. I'd not rely on it.

Same with P25 or any of the other digital modes. It's going to draw attention. Encryption isn't going to be broken, but you're still sending out a signal that someone can see.

A better approach is to use FRS, GMRS, MURS or CB, that way you'll blend in with everyone else. Then just find ways to talk about what you are doing that doesn't specifically describe it.

For 1 square mile? Get some Ritron MURS radios. Two Way Radios | Base Stations | Call Boxes | Walkie Talkies | Ritron. New radios, new batteries, new antennas, new chargers. It'll cost more initially, but you'll save money in the long run. The MURS radios are already programmed for what you need. I wouldn't invest money in HT-1000's or the like. The batteries get expensive. Since they are old radios, you'll be chasing gremlins a lot.

If you are going to rely on radios for whatever it is you are doing, then put the money into it and do it right. Buying used radios off e-Bay is a total crap shoot unless you have the tools to fix whatever you get. Trying to buy your way into Motorola isn't a good plan. It's an expensive hobby and trying to cut corners is going to bite you in the butt.

 

[RRR]

How many people (non tech folks like us) are really going to have a means to de-scramble voice inversion?

I don't have the means. (Nor do I care to) but just saying, to keep the scanner folks from listening in, it is spot on

 

[thorosaurus]

How many people (non tech folks like us) are really going to have a means to de-scramble voice inversion?

I don't have the means. (Nor do I care to) but just saying, to keep the scanner folks from listening in, it is spot on

I think you get where I'm coming from. I'm not worried about anyone with the ability to descramble it. They'll either be non existent or have much bigger problems to deal with.

I'm worried about the average joe with a Baofeng sitting there listening to us over a period of time, figuring out how many people we have, where we are, etc. As long as they can't understand what we're saying then it fits my purpose.

 

[cmdrwill]

thorosaurus runs up a big RED Flag.

 

[alcahuete]

I think you get where I'm coming from. I'm not worried about anyone with the ability to descramble it. They'll either be non existent or have much bigger problems to deal with.

I'm worried about the average joe with a Baofeng sitting there listening to us over a period of time, figuring out how many people we have, where we are, etc. As long as they can't understand what we're saying then it fits my purpose.

Looking at this and your other thread...if you aren't worried about the law, and think the FCC will not be around during the events you are talking about, then you just buy some cheap Baofengs and use voice inversion or such on MURS and GMRS (since most are dual band) and don't worry about it. Or even better, you buy some DMR Baofengs and run DMR plus whatever wacky Chinese encryption they offer.

That will fit the bill perfectly.

 

[thorosaurus]

Looking at this and your other thread...if you aren't worried about the law, and think the FCC will not be around during the events you are talking about, then you just buy some cheap Baofengs and use voice inversion or such on MURS and GMRS (since most are dual band) and don't worry about it. Or even better, you buy some DMR Baofengs and run DMR plus whatever wacky Chinese encryption they offer.

That will fit the bill perfectly.

I didn't even know that encryption was an option on those. I thought that old police surplus was the only avenue for encryption.

Can you encrypt any of the cheaper Yaesus? I would like to avoid Baofeng if possible, as I hear they're super buggy. And I would like for them to be at least somewhat drop and weather resistant.

 

[alcahuete]

I didn't even know that encryption was an option on those. I thought that old police surplus was the only avenue for encryption.

Can you encrypt any of the cheaper Yaesus? I would like to avoid Baofeng if possible, as I hear they're super buggy. And I would like for them to be at least somewhat drop and weather resistant.

No ham radio is going to have encryption or voice scrambling or anything because it is not legal on the ham bands.

Yes, the Baofengs have some form of rudimentary encryption. The Anytone series (878/578, etc.), which are really good radios, have AES256, which will ensure you are heard by nobody but the NSA. But those are outside of your budget. They're around $200 a piece.

 

[thorosaurus]

No ham radio is going to have encryption or voice scrambling or anything because it is not legal on the ham bands.

Yes, the Baofengs have some form of rudimentary encryption. The Anytone series (878/578, etc.), which are really good radios, have AES256, which will ensure you are heard by nobody but the NSA. But those are outside of your budget. They're around $200 a piece.

Well I was budgeting around 100 each for the HT1000s, plus I was going to have to buy and old computer and the programming cable. Plus whatever those voice scramblers cost. So that's probably doable.

How do the Anytone radios do in terms of weather and drops?

 

[MUTNAV]

Area is about 1 square mile, but, after encryption/voice scrambling, range is my primary concern. The farther the better.

If you are really concerned about security, "the farther the better" isn't true.

Personally It sounds like you want a Motorola Talkabout 6200 (with "eavesdrop reducer").

I would also consider starting with just two to see if your criteria is met.

Something to think about.
Joel