SnoCo Law Enforcement to Go Encrypted This Spring

kingpin

Trailer Park Supervisor
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Mar 2, 2004
Messages
428
Location
Seattle, WA
We voted, and are getting shut out...smh
You're not shut out. The radio transmissions were never there for our entertainment to begin with. We got sucked into a hobby where we could enjoy the byproduct of old technology. Technology evolves. I spent 12 years as a firefighter. Having secure comms makes our jobs easier so we don't have to think twice before saying something over the radio when relaying sensitive information.

I've been a radio guy over 30 years and it's easy to get mad about getting "shut out" but you should walk a mile in our shoes that work in public safety. This is a good thing for us. Gotta take off the tin foil hats about them hiding stuff. It's just fear mongering.
 

lnlaswell

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Jan 18, 2016
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26
Location
covington wa
Open air, keeps everyone honest, otherwise you get abuse which leads to lawsuits. If you can't say it over the air, don't say it! In this day and age there are more ways available to relay information other than the airways. So, the old adage is, if you can't convince them to keep the air open, the next time they want to raise your property taxes for other services, just vote no and remind them why you voted that way.
Now having said this .... I don't want to hear about tactical situations that police get involved in. They've already that that issue solved. Day to day dispatching does not require encryption.
 

MountainMoose

All Things radio
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Apr 23, 2014
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197
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Ada County, Idaho
You're not shut out. The radio transmissions were never there for our entertainment to begin with. We got sucked into a hobby where we could enjoy the byproduct of old technology. Technology evolves. I spent 12 years as a firefighter. Having secure comms makes our jobs easier so we don't have to think twice before saying something over the radio when relaying sensitive information.

I've been a radio guy over 30 years and it's easy to get mad about getting "shut out" but you should walk a mile in our shoes that work in public safety. This is a good thing for us. Gotta take off the tin foil hats about them hiding stuff. It's just fear mongering.
Open air, keeps everyone honest, otherwise you get abuse which leads to lawsuits. If you can't say it over the air, don't say it! In this day and age there are more ways available to relay information other than the airways. So, the old adage is, if you can't convince them to keep the air open, the next time they want to raise your property taxes for other services, just vote no and remind them why you voted that way.
Now having said this .... I don't want to hear about tactical situations that police get involved in. They've already that that issue solved. Day to day dispatching does not require encryption.
But they are relying on the non educated 'general public" to not know or understand ANY of that or any of what us as hobbyist know. It's infuriating as it insults our intelligence.
 

piercescan

Member
Joined
Jun 26, 2020
Messages
84
Location
pierce county
You're not shut out. The radio transmissions were never there for our entertainment to begin with. We got sucked into a hobby where we could enjoy the byproduct of old technology. Technology evolves. I spent 12 years as a firefighter. Having secure comms makes our jobs easier so we don't have to think twice before saying something over the radio when relaying sensitive information.

I've been a radio guy over 30 years and it's easy to get mad about getting "shut out" but you should walk a mile in our shoes that work in public safety. This is a good thing for us. Gotta take off the tin foil hats about them hiding stuff. It's just fear mongering.
🙃
 

mmckenna

I ♥ Ø
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Jul 27, 2005
Messages
26,040
Location
United States
Well, from the radio guy standpoint, there's some statements here that don't quite jive with reality.

Open air, keeps everyone honest, otherwise you get abuse which leads to lawsuits. If you can't say it over the air, don't say it! In this day and age there are more ways available to relay information other than the airways.

Open air doesn't guarantee honesty. Anyone who wants to do something fishy will just use their cell phone, or meet behind the donut shop.

Even with encryption, concerned citizens can still file Freedom of Information Act requests. No, it's not immediate, but you can still get recordings if you are honestly concerned that your local agency is up to no good.

So, the old adage is, if you can't convince them to keep the air open, the next time they want to raise your property taxes for other services, just vote no and remind them why you voted that way.

That might make someone feel good, but it's not going to change the reasons that agencies are going encrypted. For law enforcement agencies, there are established requirements that PII/CJI be full protected at all times and in all forms. Delayed feeds that people talk about do not satisfy those requirements.

There are lots of good reasons fire and EMS need encryption. Locally for us, it was a scanner listener that posted on social media about a death before the family was properly notified.

Victims rights come way ahead of hobbyist rights.

Now having said this .... I don't want to hear about tactical situations that police get involved in. They've already that that issue solved. Day to day dispatching does not require encryption.

Not all agencies have multiple channels or talk groups, and the requirements for protecting CJI/PII still exist. Someone forgetting to switch channels does not get a pass from those requirements. Officers/dispatchers have enough to do without having to switch channels every time they talk just to make things pleasurable for a small niche hobby group. So far, the arguments put up by hobbyists haven't had much power to impact this migration to encrypted systems. The legal reasons still exist and are not optional.

Keep in mind that just about all of us working in the industry are either hobbyists ourselves, or got our start with scanner/shortwave radios. We do understand what you are saying, but there are legal requirements that we must meet, and there is no magic wand solution that keeps hobbyists enjoying scanner listening while still meeting the requirements that come down from DOJ/FBI.
 

PACNWDude

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Joined
Oct 15, 2012
Messages
1,429
I'll believe it when they figure out DES vs. AES encryption like their friends to the south......and have a few KVL's on hand when/if needed.
 

scannerizer

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Messages
535
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Wherever I may roam
Well, from the radio guy standpoint, there's some statements here that don't quite jive with reality.



Open air doesn't guarantee honesty. Anyone who wants to do something fishy will just use their cell phone, or meet behind the donut shop.

Even with encryption, concerned citizens can still file Freedom of Information Act requests. No, it's not immediate, but you can still get recordings if you are honestly concerned that your local agency is up to no good.



That might make someone feel good, but it's not going to change the reasons that agencies are going encrypted. For law enforcement agencies, there are established requirements that PII/CJI be full protected at all times and in all forms. Delayed feeds that people talk about do not satisfy those requirements.

There are lots of good reasons fire and EMS need encryption. Locally for us, it was a scanner listener that posted on social media about a death before the family was properly notified.

Victims rights come way ahead of hobbyist rights.



Not all agencies have multiple channels or talk groups, and the requirements for protecting CJI/PII still exist. Someone forgetting to switch channels does not get a pass from those requirements. Officers/dispatchers have enough to do without having to switch channels every time they talk just to make things pleasurable for a small niche hobby group. So far, the arguments put up by hobbyists haven't had much power to impact this migration to encrypted systems. The legal reasons still exist and are not optional.

Keep in mind that just about all of us working in the industry are either hobbyists ourselves, or got our start with scanner/shortwave radios. We do understand what you are saying, but there are legal requirements that we must meet, and there is no magic wand solution that keeps hobbyists enjoying scanner listening while still meeting the requirements that come down from DOJ/FBI.
Put the Info channel on one end of the group better yet on both, and put Tac next door to the corresponding dispatch channel. That way the officer can know which way to turn the knob without thinking. Turning into their direction, put them on an info channel whereas one click would put them under this button opposite click to go back.

Firefighters switch channels with every call don’t they ?
 

mmckenna

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Put the Info channel on one end of the group better yet on both, and put Tac next door to the corresponding dispatch channel. That way the officer can know which way to turn the knob without thinking. Turning into their direction, put them on an info channel whereas one click would put them under this button opposite click to go back.

Firefighters switch channels with every call don’t they ?

Most radios can be programmed with a switch/button to turn encryption on/off.

But the end result is a combination of two things:

1. Public safety agencies are expected to change procedures/processes/radio programming to benefit a small, niche hobby group.

2. Officers/dispatch get tired of switching back and forth and just use the encrypted channel full time.

After years of reading the comments made on the encryption posts, there seems to be the idea that scanner users are owed something. I can understand that feeling, but it's not translating well to the agencies.
 

scannerizer

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Messages
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Wherever I may roam
Most radios can be programmed with a switch/button to turn encryption on/off.

But the end result is a combination of two things:

1. Public safety agencies are expected to change procedures/processes/radio programming to benefit a small, niche hobby group.

2. Officers/dispatch get tired of switching back and forth and just use the encrypted channel full time.

After years of reading the comments made on the encryption posts, there seems to be the idea that scanner users are owed something. I can understand that feeling, but it's not translating well to the agencies.
And I can’t believe the article says King County went encrypted when in fact, they are still open.
 
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