• Effective immediately we will be deleting, without notice, any negative threads or posts that deal with the use of encryption and streaming of scanner audio.

    We've noticed a huge increase in rants and negative posts that revolve around agencies going to encryption due to the broadcasting of scanner audio on the internet. It's now worn out and continues to be the same recycled rants. These rants hijack the threads and derail the conversation. They no longer have a place anywhere on this forum other than in the designated threads in the Rants forum in the Tavern.

    If you violate these guidelines your post will be deleted without notice and an infraction will be issued. We are not against discussion of this issue. You just need to do it in the right place. For example:
    https://forums.radioreference.com/rants/224104-official-thread-live-audio-feeds-scanners-wait-encryption.html

Some CT cities turning off encryption

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#2
Thanks Joe for that info.

Police radio systems worked fine for years WITHOUT encryption. With the use of encryption the perp of a serious crime could drive right by some police radio buffs and be long gone before anyone knows about it. We also see in this article how police officers have been put in more danger because of it.

Many good law abiding citizens have alerted police to suspects or illegal activities going on because they heard something over the radio.

What encryption has to do with the shooting of innocent black people, "I just don't understand". It has to do with the protection of ALL individuals, including the POLICE OFFICERS of ALL races out there protecting each and every one of us. Not just a certain group.

I also understand that criminals can use police radio conversations to their advantage as well. However, "lookouts" have been used to alert such suspects that the "Good Guys are on their way". They may be parked a block away giving the Bad Guys enough time to move on.

Maybe this can be chaulked up as one of those "Lessons Learned". Maybe not every new invention is a good invention. As I so often say, "let the latest new ideas be tested under actual conditions in busy places such as NYC". I'm sure they tested it much like they test so many other ideas before they put it into use. As far as I know, you can still listen to just about any NYC Police Channel without too much difficulty.

Just maybe we can learn something from them.
 

55engine

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Do you know what town we'll be going back in the clear I was told that Bristol is getting a new radio system yesterday I seen a Northwest Motorola truck pulling out of the police station
 

firerick100

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Some of the cities in ct that encryption (and anyone can add to the list) is bridgeport, milford, bristol and naugatuck.its ridiculous because as stated by mr anti digital the citizens cant hear what going on and if they really need to send out sensitive info just encrypt a talkaround channel. Wolcott was encrypted when we first put our new system in for the fd, dpw & pd several years ago and took it off due to mutual aid from other pds and Also us firefighters and the citizens held a meeting and complained they wanted it off and seemed to work.
 

55engine

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Monroe Meriden sometimes New Britain Middlebury and Southbury was in encrypted right now in the clear Greenwich is encryption and Stamford encrypted Enfield and Manchester Channel 2 in encrypted Torrington Channel 2 in encrypted westport might be encrypted Wilton is encrypted there might be a lot more but I can't think of anymore also Rocky Hill is going digital we don't know what's going on with them I also know bristol upgrading their radio system within 6 months an officer told me that they will stay in encrypted because they have citizens walking up to incidents scenes with scanners Bristol Fire Department has some new radios Phase 2 but still working off Phase 1
 
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#7
I see a lot of cities and towns that are encrypted. Does anyone know of anyone else other than those mentioned in the article that have switched back to clear comms or clear comms for routine and encryption or mdt for sensitive info?
 

leadjammer

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You can add North Haven to the will be encrypted soon list. They are purchasing new equipment and hope to be encrypted within a year. The PD chief in North Haven is all for encryption.
 
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You can add North Haven to the will be encrypted soon list. They are purchasing new equipment and hope to be encrypted within a year. The PD chief in North Haven is all for encryption.
I hope that the North Haven Police Chief reads some of the reports that are starting to come out now about encryption. Even the New Haven Register has a story on it as posted earlier.

Of course he is the Police Chief and gets the final say. But with that comes a price. Could things fail or something go wrong, it could make him liable. In particular with a local newspaper story talking about it.
 
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That was because of dead spots in Essex and pretty much all of I-95 between Exit 70 and 71 while P25.
FYI The above statement is completely inaccurate. When the original OSB system was tested in P25 we talked from Branford on 95 to Groton on 95 no problem at all, With portables in the car!

The newspaper again cites things back in 2006 just like people here love to bring up FDNYs test of digital in the late 90s (Not even a form of digital you can get anymore) and then Washington DC, something that had nothing to do with encryption at all.

if you took time to learn how P25 and encryption works you would go back to your posts and see you were wrong every time
 
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#14
FYI The above statement is completely inaccurate. When the original OSB system was tested in P25 we talked from Branford on 95 to Groton on 95 no problem at all, With portables in the car!
This is what I had been told by OSB PD 2 or 3 years ago when I was researching departments with new systems on line, or coming on line, for a story related to DHS Interop mandates.

I am surprised you could talk all the way out to Groton, as even with analog OSB PD is challenging to pick up in Niantic, even with 996 and roof mounted 1/4 wave, and my XTS 3000 and Astro Saber barely pick up OSB FD Ops until I get close to exit 70. .

That said, I know how P25 and Encryption works, and I never discussed FDNY and digital.
 
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Cleaned up the off-topic posts.

A gentle reminder to keep your posts Connecticut related.

Thanks!
I had wondered what happen to my post regarding encryption.

When I mentioned about Baltimore, Washington, and Jacksonville's newspaper articles stating that these places were also "turning off encryption", I just thought that had to do with the title of this thread - "Some Ct cities turning off encryption".

I considered it just some worthwhile advice that other places might consider.

And sorry for mentioning about that 25,000 member of the New York City Police Dept. Maybe it is that New Haven Register newspaper article that keeps them from going to encryption.

I guess that was really pretty dumb of me to go way off track here talking about all those other places.

How about the post that mentioned about the FDNY digital system in the 1990s. Then mentions something about Washington, D.C. Actually that was prior to my post and that is why I mentioned these other cities.

Can you check into that post as well. It might need some cleaning up. Isn't it supposed to be just Ct related.
 
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#17
I had wondered what happen to my post regarding encryption.

And sorry for mentioning about that 25,000 member of the New York City Police Dept. Maybe it is that New Haven Register newspaper article that keeps them from going to encryption.
Again not accurate, NYPD is going Digital and encrypted as money allows. They currently have 5 digital encrypted channels.

I don't think an article in the Connecticut news paper is going to sway them, And the Connecticut article is not accurate anyway, No department that is currently full time encrypted is changing, Naugatuck has been clear on CH-1 and encrypted on CH-2 since the system went live

Newtown and West haven just went full time and wont be changing, 2 other departments are going full time in 2017 that I know of (Not counting Bristol as they are now and will be with the new TDMA system) Before the $$ thing comes up, Both Newtown and West Haven are ADP encryption and it comes free with Motorola radios
 

PJH

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Quick side notes:

Many departments in CT, especially when NECS was a major vendor - had encryption available to them, but was not widely used. DVP-XL was the common algo used, but like most analog encryption the voice quaility wasn't the greatest - the CPU's in the radio and board hardware was the best possible. It had to do A/D conversions and other associated tasks.

Now on digital systems, the A/D is already done and the boards (or software) just applies the math so the voice quaility is the same.

FDNY tried P25 on one of the TAC channels many moons ago with their XTS3500's, and it wasn't a digital issue but ended up a programming issue based on what they were trying to accomplish at the time. This issue is what helped to develop the FDNY specified programming and the TPS options in the current radios. Essentially they get P25 radio ID sets with analog voice, among others.

The City attempted to sue Motorola claiming that the radios were prototypes but the XTS3500 is an updated version of the 3000 with a faster CPU and allowed for stronger encryption to meet some .gov customers. When the FDNY bought the 3500's the 5000's were already in prototype testing.

Prior to that, FDNY used Sabers and had been the workhorse of NYC for a very long time. In fact Motorola developed a short lived SSE5000 for NYPD so that they could reuse all their accessories. The radio was awesome, but was never developed further as Motorola was cutting costs and wanted to be moved out of the specialty radios niche as profit margins were slim. The XTS4000 was also killed around that time. You can't make a decent profit with many various tooling for a couple of customers.

FDNY didn't use the older digital option by Motorola (VSELP) - which was introduced in late 1994 early 1995 with the ASTRO Digital Saber. VSELP was only offered in the ASTRO Saber and ASTRO Spectra. LAPD was a major customer of the VSELP option but wasn't implemented. This was the only model and customer in which MODAT was available - and then went away, why....

...because in 1996 APCO settled on DVSI's IMBE CODEC for a digital standard for public safety. LAPD then updated their radios to IMBE. In 1996 Motorola released firmware and software to support IMBE.

In 1996 Motorola also released the XTS3000. As a note when CSP was building out the Smartzone system, ASTRO Sabers were bought and used during testing and initial use but the state went to the XTS3000 fleetwide due to its potentional longivity of a newer product.

So back to CT, when the Spectra was rolled out, a bunch of things happened. Many departments were in the process of replacing 1960's-1970's era radio systems and Motorola (and GE) was marketing a whole new generation of products aggressively. NECS had a very effective sales team and Motorola also still had its sales and marketing teams.

You saw many departments upgrade to the Centracom II console system with DVP-XL encryption option on the main or secondary police channel, MSF5000 repeaters, Spectra mobiles, MT1000 portables and typically Sabers with encryption for supervisors.

You renewed your fleet in many cost saving ways while taking a big leap in technology. SNET at the time had really good pricing on leased lines for public safety so as the radios were upgraded, remote receive sites and sometimes additional transmitter sites where installed.

So fast forward to the release of P25 and encryption, you saw more widespread use of encryption when grants were flowing, costs were lower and quaility improved. It's nothing, just easier to implement.

So see, mostly on topic with some corrections to other posts. :)
 

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No, it was not an issue. CPS was in its infancy - and all programming software was still RSS based at that time. CPS for the XTS3500 was never released (there was a beta copy) as the 5000 with ASTRO25 were on the verge of being released.

At the time CPS in general was buggy and most shops still preferred RSS until Motorola no longer released RSS and completely cutover (V9 IIRC). Only the oldest radios that were no longer supported had issues as CPU's were too fast (Syntor, MCX, etc) to run it.
 
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