Sonora, CA - New Radio System Helps Sheriff's Office Better Communicate

[Thunderbolt]

SONORA, Calif. -- The Tuolumne County Sheriff's Office recently completed a $1.4 million upgrade of its radio communication system.

MyMotherLode.com - Local News - Serving Tuolumne, Calaveras and Amador Counties

 

[rescue47]

Can anyone verify the new freq being used. According to my source within the TCSO they are using 157.980 as Channel 1 and 157.890 as Channel 2. I am picking up Tuolumne Dispatch on those freq (although wiht less clarity than their old low-band channels) but am unsure on the pls or inputs. If anyone can verify and submit it to the database that would be great, seeing as how the curent info on the Tuolumne County page is horrible.

 

[gmclam]

Tuolumne County Sheriff

Was there something in the article that mentioned "new frequency"? They said new radio system and 3 more repeater sites.

Before the end of 2008, Tuolumne County Sheriff was dispatching on 45.420 (cars on that frequency too) and that was simulcast on 152.630. On a weekend after 1/1/09 I found them dispatching on 152.720, which was previously their tactical channel. But by Monday morning they were back on 45.420. This was also the case last w/e.

I have not programmed these new frequencies (157.980 & 157.890) so I do not yet know if they are being used. I did not find them in the FCC DB and I asked here in another forum where these frequencies came from (http://www.radioreference.com/forum...ion-forum/132669-tuolumne-county-sheriff.html), with no reply. I will add them and report back if something is different than what is currently in the RR DB.

 

[northzone]

157.980 and 157.890 are repeater INPUT frequencies. The new primary dispatch is 152.7200. Channel 2 (tac) is 152.6300 . The phone patch channel is 159.6300 . Lowband will go away.

 

[SCPD]

It is also possible to communicate directly with other agencies with the new high band system, which should prove valuable during Fire Season and other county emergencies.

Normally hearing that a radio system increased from 3 repeaters to 6 indicates a large improvement in coverage, but I wonder how much they are gaining considering the change to higher frequencies.

I would imagine that one of the new repeater sites would be on Double Dome, if there wasn't one there already. It is located south of State Highway 108 near Kennedy Meadows. The Stanislaus National Forest and Caltrans have repeaters up there. I would think that the statement about improvement for coverage in the Emigrant Wilderness is based on a new repeater at Double Dome.

I'm happy to see that Tuolumne County did not get sold a bill of goods with an 800 MHz system that would not work in that county. The higher elevations of the county are rugged with many of the peaks in wilderness where electronic sites cannot be built.

Using high band facilitate interoperability with Cal Fire, the U.S. Forest Service, the National Park Service, and the California Dept. of Fish and Game. The surrounding Sierra foothill counties have switched to high band also, which were among the last counties in California using low band.

 

[rescue47]

Thanx Northzone, that makes sence, I will program those in a take a listen.

Gmclam, the reason for the new towers (I believe there are actually three new towers, but thety got rid of one old one to make a total of five) was that the transition to a VHF system required more towers, but as the article said would increass communication near the Pass, the Emigrant, Columbia, Jamestown, Moccassin, and distant areas around Groveland. I get my information from a friend with the TCSO. He was unsure about a lot of the details of the change over, but told me that this upgrade has been anything but smooth; a lot of problems changing a low-band system that has been in use for many years.

This is what I do know: The old towers were Mt. Lewis, West Sonora Peak, and Double Dome. The new towers are Duckwall (south of Tuolumne City), West Sonora Peak (near Columbia), Moccassin Peak, Strawberry Peak (near Pinecrest), and Double Dome (near the Pass). Some of teh towers are sketchy right now and the change over of all the old radios in their units and the portables is not complete. That, combined with the State Parole / Fish and Game / etc.. units that have yet to change their radios over to the new VHF system might account for the traffic you hear on the low-band channels, but I am under the assumption that those channels are either on their way out or used as secondary/backup channels.

ExSmokey, as I understand it, the new VHF system would be clearer and make for better comms, but would mean adding the extra towers. But, as I said, it is incorrectly reported in the article. It is 5 towers; I can personnaly vouche that the Mt. Lewis Tower is not used anymore by the TCSO. The big issue was that the low-band system was failing and needed major upgrades/repairs, so it made sense to follow the other foothill/mountain communities and switch to VHF. Ambulance up hear is UHF, but CalFire is VHF, USFS is VHF, Police are VHF, and BLM is VHF. In fact, the only agency I know of up in TC that is still low-band is the CHP and they are communicating with dispatch down in the Merced area.

If anyone has other info on this switch-over (pls, etc...) please share with me. THANX.

 

[gmclam]

Tuolumne County Sheriff

I concur with Exsmokey that a move from low band is a mistake. OK, so old equipment was dying, replace it with new low band equipment. Tuolumne county is huge with respect to radio waves and I doubt even 10 towers could do the job. I am amazed that I can be in places and receive CHP loud and clear for other areas of the state (Gold, Black, Orange, Silver for example), while getting 10-1 reception on CHP Yellow (the local channel).

Here is a recap of what I am hearing both here and personal listening:
INPUT OUTPUT CT DESCRIPTION
157.980 152.720 162.2 SHERIFF CHANNEL 1
157.890 152.630 127.3 SHERIFF CHANNEL 2
? 159.630 ? SHERIFF PHONE PATCH

Can anyone tell me what the following frequencies are used for:
045.300
046.560
159.510
160.200

While there is no other low band VHF in northern Tuolumne county, certainly it is still being used by Calaveras county law enforcement.

 

[rescue47]

In my personnal database I have...

045.300 is Tuolumne County Sheriff’s Office Telco (don't even know what that is and if it is still in use considering the VHF switch)

But nothing else matches up with anything I have in my personal Tuolumne County Database, and that is pretty complete.

 

[SCPD]

You misinterpreted what I said, although I can see why. I was trying to say that 6 repeaters (now corrected to be 5) may look like a doubling in coverage or at least a very significant gain in coverage quality, but I'm not surprised that 5 repeaters on VHF-High is needed to cover what 3 VHF-Low repeaters may have been providing. A large gain in coverage area or signal quality may not occur with this switch, except I'm almost positive that better coverage in the Moccassin and Coulterville areas will occur. I was on the Stansislaus Complex Fire in 1987 and I heard that it was hard for the county to communicate in some of that area. The fire and all the apparatus could not communicate with the county S.O. I don't remember too clearly on this point but I believe we had to issue the S.O. handhelds from the NIFC cache.

I think it is good that they are going from low band to high band VHF. There are so few agencies operating on low band and the equipment available is not very good as the vendors are not spending time or money to bring out new product lines. Low band is pain in the ribcage to use in handhelds. I had a friend with California State Parks who used to carry a low band handheld and the antenna poked him in the ribcage all day long. I'm glad they did not choose an 800 MHz system.

I think the move to high band is good because it is really the band of choice for rural counties, especially those with public lands where almost every agency managing them are on VHF-High. The lone exception is California is the Dept. of Parks and Recreation (state parks). In addition the NIFC large incident radio cache is on VHF-High. A quick look at the RR database shows every rural county north of from Fresno County in the Sierra Cascade region, then every Sacramento River valley county and every to the coast north of Sonoma County are on VHF-High. Tuolumne County can work out the problems with the change over and it will sure be cheaper than it would be if they had decided to go UHF like Tulare County did. Much cheaper than if they had gone with an overpriced and under performing 800 MHz trunked system.

 

[northzone]

162.000(192.8pl) is the input to 159.630(162.2pl) the phone patch channel. It is one site only(Telegraph) so you will rarely hear it used.

 

[ScannerDude244]

looks like more county's are using 152mhz now? also keep me update on the freqs i'm going up that way in few weeks.

 

[rescue47]

To expound on what exsmokey said, I use calfire and forest service as examples. They use VHF in the same areas that the TCSO do and have no problems in coverage. For example...

CalFires TCU takes in Tuolumne, Calaveas, and eastern prtions of Stanislaus and San Juaquin. The dispatch out of San Andreas and, using only 7 VHF towers, they communicate with departments, stations, and units in some of these remoter areas: Jenny Lind, West Point, Bear Valley, Kennedy Meadow, Coulterville, and Don Pedro. Those are greater distances than anything that the TCSO has to transmit over and they don't have a problem with signal strength or clarity; somehting that on Low Band he TCSO had great problems with (clarity that is). the same thing goes for the Stanislaus National Forest, which takes in portes of several counties and a couple million acres covering elevations form 3000 to 14000 feet (most of it is 7000-10000) and with only 12 towers cover most of it so well that the local SO's have had to use SNF freqs. for communication when they couldn't get out on low band. VHF, I believe, is the better bet in this case.

And, ExSmokey, Coulterville is in Mariposa County not Tuolumne by about 10+ miles. This upgrade will dramaticly help out Groveland though, as well as Moccassin, Columbia, and the high country (especially for SAR operations).

Oh and those new frequencies that gmclam mentioned for the TCSO... EXCELLENT!!! They are spot on and clear for me at 4000 feet in Tuolumne County.

 

[WayneH]

045.300
046.560

My notes from a site visit show 45.30 as a repeater output and the input to it as 46.56

 

[gmclam]

162.000 MHz

162.000(192.8pl) is the input to 159.630(162.2pl) the phone patch channel. It is one site only(Telegraph) so you will rarely hear it used.

I've monitored 159.630 for about 4 years, and have not picked up anything on it. But I am not always near or in Tuolumne.

I find the use of 162.000 to be odd as it is a marine frequency (28R) and I show it in narrow band federal use band.

 

[SCPD]

To expound on what exsmokey said, I use calfire and forest service as examples. They use VHF in the same areas that the TCSO do and have no problems in coverage. For example...

the same thing goes for the Stanislaus National Forest, which takes in portes of several counties and a couple million acres covering elevations form 3000 to 14000 feet (most of it is 7000-10000) and with only 12 towers cover most of it so well that the local SO's have had to use SNF freqs. for communication when they couldn't get out on low band. VHF, I believe, is the better bet in this case.

And, ExSmokey, Coulterville is in Mariposa County not Tuolumne by about 10+ miles. This upgrade will dramatical help out Groveland though, as well as Moccassin, Columbia, and the high country (especially for SAR operations).

.

Thanks for the correction regarding the Coulterville area. My memory of the Stanislaus Complex of 87 is beginning to fade. There was an agency we worked with that was having trouble covering that area and now I can't remember who it is.

Good point regarding local agencies needing to use Forest Service frequencies for coverage. I was a bit confused when you used the abbreviation "SNF" to mean the Stanislaus National Forest as the Stanislaus is actually "STF" and the nearby Sierra National Forest is "SNF." Madera County uses the SNF nets east of the town of North Fork, presumably due to coverage problems. The Stanislaus actually has 12 repeater sites at the following locations: Mt Reba, Walker Ridge, Double Dome, Relief Peak, Strawberry Peak, Sachse Monument, Mt. Lewis (Elizabeth), Yankee Hill, Duckwall Mtn., North Mtn., Pilot Peak, and Eagle Peak (Ferguson). These are far more repeaters than Tuolumne County has but they are covering portions of Alpine, Calaveras, Tuolumne, and Mariposa Counties and those portions are the most rugged parts of those counties.

It should be noted that the Forest Service and the National Park Service provide coverage for handhelds for every nook and cranny of their jurisdictions, areas that the county might not have a need to cover for many decades. It is not worth the County's money to install a repeater to cover those areas. Now Tuolumne County officers will be carrying VHF-High handhelds and working VHF-High mobiles and if they need coverage in those areas they can switch to the STF nets.

The Inyo National Forest is able to provide handheld coverage for 2.5 million acres in two large counties, Inyo and Mono, with ten repeater sites. Yosemite National Park provides coverage for handhelds on Park Net with three repeaters, Hoffman, Crane Flat, and Wawona, and two repeaters (Turtleback and Sentinel Dome) for its Valley net.

My experience using the Yosemite NP, Toiyabe NF, and Inyo NF radio systems is that VHF-High is that it can't "bend" as well as VHF-Low, but that it can get through many knife edge paths and reflect in other areas sufficiently to reach a repeater. At one time the Forest Service was on low band nationwide and then they shifted to VHF-High sometime in the early 60's. I can also say that low band antennas, such as the one I have on my Toyota Land Cruiser (to cover the 6 and 10 meter bands) is a real pain to use when driving on dirt roads in the forest, whereas the 2 meter antenna is no problem at all. Low band antennas find large branches that VHF-High antennas don't.

Everything considered, I think this is a good move for Tuolumne County. They may be adding a repeater or two in the next ten years as they work with their new system.

 

[rescue47]

Everything considered, I think this is a good move for Tuolumne County. They may be adding a repeater or two in the next ten years as they work with their new system.

Couldn't agree more, but who knows. My old friends in the SO say that ther have been glitches in the implimintation and one of the towers (Double Dome) isn't completely functional (but the pass is closed, so it ain't needed right now), but once they work teh bugs out, hopefully it will all be good. On a side note, while the SO could use STF they have rarely had to in the past seeing as how they don't often patrol the high country; thats forestry's job. I have been told that the SO might spend a little more and put extenders in some of their vehicles (the 4WD patrol units and the SAR units) which, in therory, will boost comms in some areas out here. the big change here was that they put in a repeater at Duckwall and didn't upgrade the Lewis one, which should negate the need for any more towers anywhere from Columbia to Groveland; it's the high country that might be iffy. Also, of I'm not mistaken, one of my old USFS friends told me that they have another tower in STF (sorry, I know that is correct, but old habits die hard) that is mobile,it gets put up on East Flange to cover the emigrant in the summer. The problem is putting it up (sometimes not until July) and taking it down; something that has to do with the wilderness act, I assume?

 

[dougr1252]

Public safety agencies are starting to license frequencies from other services which have available channels in their area, such as marine and paging. Some of these are "market-based" instead of "facilities-based", so those frequencies don't show up in an FCC search because they licensed a range of freqs. The only way I've found to dig these up so far is searching on the FRN of the agency. Then you'll find the licenses like these:

WQGQ376

WQGQ377

Was there something in the article that mentioned "new frequency"? They said
I have not programmed these new frequencies (157.980 & 157.890) so I do not yet know if they are being used. I did not find them in the FCC DB and I asked here in another forum where these frequencies came from (http://www.radioreference.com/forum...ion-forum/132669-tuolumne-county-sheriff.html), with no reply. I will add them and report back if something is different than what is currently in the RR DB.

 

[rescue47]

The whole premise behind this thread was that the Tuolumne County SO was going to have improved communications with the new VHF system and dispatch center. As I said before, there ahve reportedly been glitches in the transision that haven't really have hindered communication in some instances. For example...

Who have their scanners listening to the TCSO dispatch channel (152.720) on Monday night (3-23-09), right before midnight? There was someting unheard of in our little county, a home invasion. you can read the basic story below, but teh gist is that 5 hooded men broken into an appartment, heald an asian family at knife-point, tied up dome of teh family, and stole cash/laptop/cells phones. These intruders weren;t very mart, becasue the second they left the home the family was able to call 911 and point out exactly in which dirrection the suspects were headed (and their wasn't a lot of places to go in that area). I was doning some computer work when the call come over the scanner that was on low in the background (helps me think). Every on-duty deputy (with the excpetion of one was stuck in the snow on a dirt road) in the county was en-route immediately as well as several deputies at the jail and investigators that were woken up by dispatch (15 in all). Because the are in question was adjacent to the city Limits, the Sonora PD also were asked to assist with the only 3 officers on duty. They did a great job on seeling off teh area and capturing 4 of the intruder, however, had some problems with intra-agency communications. The SO took point on this call and the PD were there ot assist, however, the PD haen;t programmed their scanners for teh new TCSO channels, so were in the dark on what was going on as it was going on. When the Sargents needed teh PD to help wiht something, they would have to call their dispatch, who would call PD dispatch, who would relay the info to the officers. I was listening to both TCSO and SPD channels and was amazed how it would take at least 90 seconds for innformation to be passed along (critical information sometimes). I was confused on why a mutual aid frequency wasn't used, like CLEMARS. Instead, information like "we have one at gun-point, we think the others ran into the creek and are heading in teh dirrection (of teh PD ooficers)" took minutes to be relayed to those officers. I was just shocken in teh lack of intra-agency communication. I'm used to working ambulance, where I have several Fire channels in my radio for talking with the FF's on scene of an incident. It seems that agencies that work closely together, like 2 LE agencies operating in teh same town, sould have the ability to communicate dirrectly with one another. IMHO...

MyMotherLode.com - Local News - Serving Tuolumne, Calaveras and Amador Counties

 

[SCPD]

If "East Flange" is in the Emigrant Wilderness having a permanent repeater newly installed rather than replace an existing building and antenna conflicts with the Wilderness Act of 1964. Most often repeaters that were in existence prior to the Congressional designation are "donut-holed" out of the wilderness.

Also the Forest Service patrols the high country, in vehicles, on horses, and on foot. Do remember that the county has concurrent jurisdiction on National Forest land. The laws pertaining to crimes against people and their property are state laws which the counties or other local jurisdictions enforce. Federal law pertaining to National Forests don't cover most of this, with the exception of the regulations promulgated relative to people causing disturbances and using public address systems in recreation areas. National Forest laws largely include the uses of the land. U.S. Forest Service law enforcement officers meet all POST requirements to be state peace officers. In California the decision as to whether these officers are classified as such is with the Sheriff of each and every county that National Forest lands are in.

As for interagency operations, the fire service is far more advanced than law enforcement. Fire agencies took the lead in developing ICS and are very good at using it. Cops seem to be behind in this. Another difference I have found between the two services is that firefighters are very often radio and frequency savvy where a large number of cops understand the PTT button and a few channels, little else. This reflects in the equipment of each service with field programmable handhelds are common in the fire service but not common in law enforcement.

This reminds me of a phrase I might replace my current signature line with. "God invented firefighters so cops can keep their uniforms clean." Since I wore both hats in the Forest Service (as a crew boss, et al, on 108 fires and as an unarmed Forest Protection Officer) I gained the perspective of both. I also worked in recreation (w/facilities to maintain) so my uniform wasn't always clean.

 

[WayneH]

I find the use of 162.000 to be odd as it is a marine frequency (28R) and I show it in narrow band federal use band.

Show it in the Federal band? Based on what source? It's definitely not.