St Louis TRS Range

[muhockey86]

What kind of range can I expect from this system? I live just across the river in Jefferson County and just get a trace every once and a while. I was told by a City deputy that it has a 50 mile range and that he can get it in Bonne Terre.

How far away are you guys that can receive this system? Any tips on improving reception?

I know some of you will mention line of sight, terrain so I'll go ahead and answer that one. I live at the convergence of the Meramec and Mississippi. I'm sure I don't get the greatest LOS on the towers, but I don't believe I'm in a valley either.

 

[shaft]

Im in Wentzville and I cant hear them. I start to pick them up roughly around 270 and 70. I dont think theres anyway you or he can pick them up in Bonne Terre. Maybe he was thinking of the county's conventional system.

 

[muhockey86]

I don't know...he seemed to be pretty knowledgeable of it....I'm like 10 air miles away....I just can't help but think I should be getting this

 

[dpm3]

I'm in the Webster/Crestwood/Oakland/Glendale area (I-44 and Big Bend) and can only get the very briefest snatches and fragments of transmissions. The earlier round of testing and prior (aborted) implementation - while still not really listenable - was much more accessible than it is now. I don't know if the current tests are low power or what, but if this is any indication reception in even the nearby suburbs is not looking promising.

 

[KD0IEP]

If you are intent on receiving this, you antenna height is critical and your elevation above average terrain. What antenna are you using? I live in Richmond Heights, and receive very good at Hi Point area (Clayton, Skinker McCausland) which is very high location. You can see downtown from there. At my home, reception is poor, going west of Hi Point goes downhill. So your location and antenna are a determing factor. Find a high spot in Webster and see if that doesn't help. Let me know your results. DXChaser.

 

[dpm3]

I'm located in the Webster/Kirkwood/Oakland/Glendale area bounded by Rock Hill Rd., Sappington, I-44 and Big Bend. I'm listening on a PSR-500 and have tried the stock duck, the RS 800 mHz duck, a Motorola 800 mHz duck and a home roof mounted RS "Scantenna" type. Today's results were brief scan stops on TG 10013 with no audible readable audio but brief crackles. I'm getting consistent 4 - 5 bars signal strength on the control channel, but nothing readable. The choice of antenna seemed to make no difference. This reception is miserably worse than that encountered during the several months ago testing/abortive implementation. I'll see how far East I have to go to get consistent usable reception. Others out there have any insights or contributions?

 

[drozen]

Has the city flipped to digital..?A newbie on scanning-a day or so ago 800mhz went silent.

 

[KD0IEP]

I'm located in the Webster/Kirkwood/Oakland/Glendale area bounded by Rock Hill Rd., Sappington, I-44 and Big Bend. I'm listening on a PSR-500 and have tried the stock duck, the RS 800 mHz duck, a Motorola 800 mHz duck and a home roof mounted RS "Scantenna" type. Today's results were brief scan stops on TG 10013 with no audible readable audio but brief crackles. I'm getting consistent 4 - 5 bars signal strength on the control channel, but nothing readable. The choice of antenna seemed to make no difference. This reception is miserably worse than that encountered during the several months ago testing/abortive implementation. I'll see how far East I have to go to get consistent usable reception. Others out there have any insights or contributions?

The reason you heard no audio but received a carrier is that the new digital system went into opreration last Monday, March 2, 2009. Now if you listen you should hear all kinds of activity. The list of TGID's is listed on the RR site under Missouri-St Louis City Groups-Public Safety,now called APCO 25. The old 800 MHz trunked system still has some activity. I heard EMS there. But all 800 MHZ users will eventually migrate over to the digital system. Don't know when.I noticed the SLFD will have it's own TGID.
If you are having reception issues you may have to go mobile with your PSR-500 and get closer to transmitter sites. I live in Richmond Heights, on the down slop away from SL City. If I drive up to Clayton-Skinker-Macausland area reception is superior. I drive buy there all the time and the singals are very strong there. So it's location, location,location that really counts. DXChaser.

 

[KD0IEP]

digital system reception

I don't know...he seemed to be pretty knowledgeable of it....I'm like 10 air miles away....I just can't help but think I should be getting this

Your reception out side of ten miles is strictly related to your altitude. I live 7 miles west of downtown and
my reception is good only when I drive to a high point. Otherwise the signal will just go right over you. If you are stationary you will have go mobile and get to a higher point. If you are at home using stock antenna, reception will most likely be poor to marginal. There may be hills and valleys nearby. River valleys
are notorious for having poor reception. I drove down I-55 and noticed reception was very good only when I
would get to the peak of a hill. Reception weakens the further south you go. Try a good high spot in Arnold. Good luck. Hope this helps. DXChaser.

 

[scanman1958]

For those that are having reception problems have any of you tried a yagi antenna with low loss cable? I have heard that that combination makes a big difference in reception. A little more expensive but hey, we have already spent $500 plus for the scanner. Anyone else out there have that kind of setup? This is a big change for St. Louis. I guess it will take quite a while for everyone to get used to it.

 

[kruser]

For those that are having reception problems have any of you tried a yagi antenna with low loss cable? I have heard that that combination makes a big difference in reception. A little more expensive but hey, we have already spent $500 plus for the scanner. Anyone else out there have that kind of setup? This is a big change for St. Louis. I guess it will take quite a while for everyone to get used to it.

Yep, I have a 12 element yagi fed into LMR-400 coax and I needed that just to get good reception on the old analog system!
It worked wonders for the old system. Without the yagi, I could barely hear the data channel.
With the new P25 system I cannot get a good signal so I only hear bits and pieces of talk.
I can give up trying with my BCD 996 and a PSR-500 as they both have front ends that overload easily.
The only luck I've had is with an older radio shack Pro-96.
It will get maybe 10% of the comms if even.
The PSR-500 shows 17 to 50% on the data channel but it will not decode most traffic.
My older BC 780 hears the data channel fine but it of course does not include a P25 decoder :-(

 

[dpm3]

The reason you heard no audio but received a carrier is that the new digital system went into opreration last Monday, March 2, 2009. DXChaser.

Actually, it was difficulty in receiving the new P25 System that I was referring to in the original posting. I've seen (here and elsewhere) suggestions that co-channel interference from either those users still on the old analog system and/or Sprint/Nextel might be the cause of the poor audio. Whatever the reason (and a more definitive answer might be helpful), there has been some slight improvement noted over the past few days. Perhaps, however, this is nothing more than wishful thinking on my part and, in any event, it is still far from satisfactory at this time.

Any other GRE PSR500/600 suburban users out there who have discovered "tweaks" in the TYSYS settings (Expert and otherwise) are encouraged to share them. It is very frustrating to be listening to an following an interesting incident or series of transmissions on a talkgroup only to have the audio go intermittently garbled at critical moments

 

[K1IF]

Have you had any luck "tweaking" the settings? I also am very frustrated in the reception of St Louis City. I live in Swansea, IL and am only getting about 10% of the transmissions. Please share any tweaks you have found. I also have a 996t and have the same problems but have adjusted the apco settings of p25 wait time, adjust mode and adjust level and seem to be getting more transmissions that are not garbled but still nowhere satisfactory. I am not sure how to access these on the GRE ( I actually have the Pro197) but I am interested in hearing any setting that might help. I was also told that since there is a starcom21 tower only 3 miles from me and that I must get the St Louis signal directly in the path of the Starcom21 , it may be interferring with the signal or the Starcom21 signal may be overloading my scanner. Whatever the case, it really sucks! BTW I am using a Wilson 800MHz Yagi with Belden 9913 Flex low loss coax. The Yagi is mounted on one story home on a chimney mount. Getting a signal of 1 to 3 bars on the pro197

 

[1099-J2]

Yep, the City of St Louis is 90% complete with it's switch to the "Project 25" system. All districts are now on the digital system and traffic, ID, and homicide, are all being simulcast on the digital. Just last week, I heard EMS being simulcast on the digital. I have my Uniden 996T mounted mobile right next to a Motorola Maxtrac that was programed with all available "trunked" freqs. The above mentioned units of the PD are the only remaining units on the 800 mhz radio. The simulcast I am hearing must mean that the switch is inevitable.
As far as programming...thanks to this site and it'd reader tips, I have saved myself a tremendous amount of button pushing when programming. Last night opened a "new system" in the 996T and put in just the STLMPD P-25 "Control Channel" for the City. Hit "search ID" and wham!!!!...Started hearing all districts.
Added a "quick group" and every time I would hear a district or a new "talk group ID" would pop up, I'd hit hold, "edit TGID" and look on the list and change the alpha name for that number. EASY!
As far as reception, took some tips from the antenna forum and dumped the multi-ban "glass antennas" and went with the Radio Shack mag mount. I am hearing the City great within the 270 corridor with weak reception out near Page and Lindbergh,, far south St Louis County, 44 and 270 marginal, going east into Illinois, it's better once you get over toward the 64/255 area. Overall, I'd give it a 25 mile radius from their towers. Definitely higher ground makes a difference. I've even found "hot spots" in parking lots in St Charles.

 

[shaft]

Nice user name!

I wonder if some of your reception issues lies with your antenna still. For the most part your assessment is pretty close to what I've experienced. I use and old school mag mount cell phone antenna and I can pick up STL city clear from the Page and Lindbergh area. It does start to fade out just past 270 going west on either 70 or Page.

 

[LiveSTLScanner]

What I have found.

This might sound silly but I have tried the RS 800 duck, the so called best 800mhz antenna ( The Seeker ), and a few multi band antennas. As strange as this sounds what is working the best for me right now is just a short coax with 3" of the center at the end, basically a 3" whip . Very cheap and easy to do, it works better than any other antenna I have used. One thing I strongly dislike about the P25 is that they used the same problem prone freqs that the old system used. I'm sure everyone remembers the static problems on the old system. Well using the same freqs and power level these problems are still there only now they are missing up the bitstream. It is becoming common that aid calls are going out for officers because the dispatcher looses coms with the officer. One day a few weeks ago we had some bad weather in the area witch always seems to mess with the 800mhz band. The Dist 1&2 dispatcher could not copy officers on their WTs for a short time. Bottom line is unless they re-band, up the power (witch I don't think would fix the WT problem), or remove all the junk between 856 ~ 861mhz we will have these problems off and on. The only way I have ever had a signal that never broke up was when I lived in my old house on Hampton near Arsenal I had a yagi antenna about 5 feet above the roof line pointed at the downtown tower. Now living in the city I don't think I should have to go to that extreme. This 3" whip works well but I have to move it around a lot. Funny thing, I have a great signal one second but when the freqs change and it's all broken up and moving the antenna a bit to the left or right does the trick, untill the freq changes again. So it's back and forth, back and forth. I have tried and tried but there seems to be no center. I have no proof but I strongly think that this is all because of Nextel bleedover and other stuff in the same band. Just seems to me that if radio repair knew and I know that they know about this because the old system always had static problems, that they would re-band when programming this system. I thought that was why the FCC was making this re-banding happen, to get rid of all the garbage in the 800mhz public safety radio systems. I guess for now I will keep moving my antenna around and wait to see what, if anything they do about this. Sorry to run on for so long, just my thoughts, take care guys.

 

[redhelmet13]

I wonder if the transmit power is lower on the P25 system than it was on the analog system?

 

[SCPD]

I wonder if the transmit power is lower on the P25 system than it was on the analog system?

probably not. Digital just has a smaller "foootprnt"

 

[n0vkg]

slmpd p25 - for bcd396t & bcd996t

Greetings all,
Here are some settings to try on your 396t & 996t
for the slmpd p25 and for SC21's t359 & t305:

Well, I've been doing some experimenting with various settings in the p25 menus. Here are some settings to try on your bcd-996t or bcd-396t:

Remember to turn on the radio so that the hidden P25 menus appear. On the bcd-396t you hold down on the HOLD button while pressing the power button.

Under SETTINGS, you should show:

- P25 Waiting Time
- P25 Adjust Mode
- P25 Adjust Level

Try the following changes:

- Settings > P25 Waiting Time > 0 ms
- Settings > P25 Adjust Mode > 13
- Settings > P25 Adjust Level > 100
- SLMPD P25 > Edit Sys Option > Adjust P25 Level > Auto
- SLMPD P25 > Set Modulation > NFM

Watch the P25 ERROR SCREEN while in ID SEARCH mode. And
while in ID SEARCH, adjust down the starting-point for p25
transmission adjust so it reads: 7 AUTO.

Then do this same for T359 and T305 of SC21:

- T359 > Edit Sys Option > Adjust P25 Level > Auto
- T359 > Set Modulation > NFM
- T305 > Edit Sys Option > Adjust P25 Level > Auto
- T305 > Set Modulation > NFM

Try this out on your bcd-396t or bcd-996t while the RF
signal strength is relatively weak, say 2 bars or 1 bar
of total strength. See if your ERROR screen settles
down around:

ERR: 0 or close to <zero>

This assumes you have the latest firmware of either the
bcd-396t or bcd-996t. I'm trying to find the best settings
for the weakest signal situations.

 

[n0vkg]

slmpd p25 is verified as true simulcast system now

Greetings all,
I forgot to mention that the slmpd p25 is indeed a true simulcasting system.
Both the South Patrol & HQ towers are transmitting at the same time. The brand
new North Patrol tower is NOT yet transmitting. But might in the future.

This was all verified just recently. By doing the old:

- Take the antenna OFF of the radio while inside car.

Still full 5-bars of reeption at SPD & HQ tower sites.
No bars at the NPD tower. The car's metal shell acts
as a resonable RF shield/cage. Keeping out distant or
weak RF signals. Though 800Mhz penetrates inside
cars reasonably well.

This only applies to the new P25 system. Not the old analog system.

Back in 2006, I did the same test with the Jefferson County
VHF Simulcasting Radio system. I drove to each tower
site, and took the antenna OFF of the radio to verify
each tower was indeed transmitting. At VHF, being
at the tower site results in much weaker signals inside
the car with the antenna OFF of the radio. Instead
of the 5 bars with 800Mhz ; I got 2 to 3 bars of RF at VHF.