State Patrol Relays??

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mjthomas59

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Starting yesterday and continuing on through today i have heard some strange traffic coming over on the highway patrol on both 42.10 and 42.14. They have been talking about "setting up relays" and "(unit number) in position for relay" and other "relay" related things. Anyone know what is going on? I think the actual relay towers may be having problems or perhaps being upgraded, not too big of a problem in the northern part of the troop other than perhaps Pike county, but i can only imagine the radio issues they may have further south with having all the relays down.

Anyone else heard anything of this stuff on the radio? And does anyone know what is going on? They appear to have troopers setup in every zone to relay something, just don't know if it is normal radio traffic or what.
 

BaLa

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they talked about that quite a bit.


I always used to think it was just paperwork and stuff?
Deliver somekind of paperwork to HQ or to the Troop - cheaper than mail I guess??
 

trainerman

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A relay means that they are relaying a prisoner from county to county or zone to zone to be delivered somewhere.
 

mjthomas59

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Well relaying prisoners would make sense, the only reason i brought attention to it is because i've been monitoring the patrol for quite some time and never heard them mention relays. And when they did start talking about relays they had officers in almost every zone calling in.

Thanks for the information!
 

njt462

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Each Troop is licensed to be powered up to 5,000 watts but most of the time they only run at about 300 to 500 watts thus needing the relays to get information across. On special events and holiday weekends each troop will increase power to the full 5,000 watts which is suppose to make their assigned lowband channel be heard all over the state of course there are a few dead spots.

This being Labor Day weekend one of the dispatchers told me from sometime Friday till about 2300 hours Monday each Troop will be running at 5,000 watts from time to time thus making the relay towers useless, and not needed.

I guess over the past week they were testing it out to make sure it was working and turned the relay towers off and wanted to make sure they were covering their Troop with no dead spots.

Last night (Friday) while on highway 61 between Frankford and Bowling Green in Pike County I was hearing on my mobile scanner ALL the Troops doing traffic which has never happened before I guess because of the increased traffic and power wattage due to the holiday weekend, then once last night during the late hours one dispatcher from Troop B,C, and I for a total of 3 dispatchers handed stuff off and for a minute the C dispatcher was on I. I was on B, and B was on C. Then after about 2 minutes went back to the normal voices on their respected Troops.

I do not know if it will happen again tonight I am currently at work and wont be able to monitor it again till tonight. Also since the Troops have started doing this the "pairing" dispatch and input channels that some sites list are no longer in effect due to troops using different power levels at different times. Regardless of what the database says the following Troops will be opperating on the following Low Band channels when at 5,000 watts, and from what I can tell as well on normal power thanks to "pairing" being taken out. Of course the input channels are still shared between the Troops but the main dispatching channels are here:

Troop A (Lee Summit) 42.920
Troop B (Macon) 42.820
Troop C (Kirkwood) 42.100, 42.120, and 42.140
Troop D (Springfield) 42.060
Troop E (Poplar Bluff) 42.940
Troop F (Jefferson City) 42.640
Troop G (Willow Springs) 42.380
Troop H (St. Joseph) 42.400
Troop I (Rolla) 42.580


Hope it happens again tonight, anyone else experiencing strange traffic on the Missouri Highway Patrol channels?
 

OpSec

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FWIW:

On "average" days, the "normal" power is ~1500 watts unless they are turned up to the full 3000 watts. I'm not sure where the 5000 watt figure came from but the MSHP base stations are only 3,000 watt custom-made units. Regardless, that is a helluva signal to have on lowband.
 

BaLa

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stateboy said:
FWIW:

On "average" days, the "normal" power is ~1500 watts unless they are turned up to the full 3000 watts. I'm not sure where the 5000 watt figure came from but the MSHP base stations are only 3,000 watt custom-made units. Regardless, that is a helluva signal to have on lowband.
I think he was confused anyways.
I lived less than 10 miles from one of those Relays for over a yr, and it was never turned off.
Those relays 'repeat' only the Troopers Tx side.
 

trainerman

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I think he was making it up as he goes along. What he was saying had nothing to do with any "prisoner relay." Where he got his info is beyond me and doesn't even make sense.

Prisoner relays have been around for years as my uncle was a trooper in MO for years. I think he took a term and made a definition up to sound like he knew what he was talking about.
 

nascarfan999

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stateboy said:
FWIW:

On "average" days, the "normal" power is ~1500 watts unless they are turned up to the full 3000 watts. I'm not sure where the 5000 watt figure came from but the MSHP base stations are only 3,000 watt custom-made units. Regardless, that is a helluva signal to have on lowband.

The following example from Troop A would at least appear that they are licensed for 5000 watts. I'm not an expert in the technical specs of the radios so I may be quoting the wrong number. If so, than this would be where the 5000 figure came from.

Frequency Emission Class Mob Pag Pwr Lat Long City County State
42.06000000 20K0F3E FB 1 0 5000.000 38.90389 -94.36383 LEES SUMMIT JACKSON MO

In case this doesn't format very well, here's the link to the RR listing and the FCC ULS license:
http://www.radioreference.com/modules.php?name=RR&action=fcc&cs=KAA202
http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/Uls...JbGd3hDfffJTVh!-674706926!NONE?licKey=1284871

Now as for the relays, I agree that the relay towers were not turned off, regardless of what power the troops did or didn't operate at over the weekend. I heard at least one coming in loud and clear late Friday night.
 

OpSec

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I have no doubt that the FCC data is correct at 5000 watts but I was lucky enough to see the base radios up close last week, and they are 3000 watt units. I guess MSHP wanted some padding in case they needed an ever bigger signal :)
 

nascarfan999

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thx for the insight stateboy, I can't say I'm too surprised that they left themselves some room to grow. On a somewhat related note, does anyone here have much experience using the PRO-97 on lowband? I've had mine about a month, and my only complaint so far is it seems pretty weak on lowband frequencies (using multiple antennas, including the rubber ducky antenna it came with). I know this probably belongs in a different forum, but since we are on the topic of the MSHP, and they're (almost) the only lowband around anymore, I thought I would pose the question.
 

justinnmr

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I have had excellent MHP reception w/ my Pro-97 with every antenna I have used including the original rubber ducky, a larger rubber ducky, and my mag mount. I must say though that there must be a tower rather close to me because Signal Stalker picks up the MHP frequencies lol.
 

BaLa

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justinnmr said:
I have had excellent MHP reception w/ my Pro-97 with every antenna I have used including the original rubber ducky, a larger rubber ducky, and my mag mount. I must say though that there must be a tower rather close to me because Signal Stalker picks up the MHP frequencies lol.
lmao :lol: :lol:
Troop C Dispatch is in Kirkwood, I believe (near St. Louis) :roll:
On another note, anytime I used to drive through Rolla, the SS on my Pro 83 would go off. (when I still had it of course)

nascarfan999 said:
thx for the insight stateboy, I can't say I'm too surprised that they left themselves some room to grow. On a somewhat related note, does anyone here have much experience using the PRO-97 on lowband? I've had mine about a month, and my only complaint so far is it seems pretty weak on lowband frequencies (using multiple antennas, including the rubber ducky antenna it came with). I know this probably belongs in a different forum, but since we are on the topic of the MSHP, and they're (almost) the only lowband around anymore, I thought I would pose the question.

With a good enough antenna you should be able to pickup dispatch in most places.
Exactly where are you at, and which Troop are you trying to monitor.
 
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nascarfan999

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My location varies quite a bit. My main residence is in St. Charles, and I am able to hear it from my house just fine. My main problem is when I am mobile. For example, I will travel to NE Missouri a decent bit, and I lost Troop C in southern Lincoln County. I've seen other scanners pick up Troop C (42.140) well into Pike County. In addition, when I am in NE MO I try to monitor Troop B Macon (42.82), but cannot do so from nearly any part of US 61 in Marion, Lewis, or Clark Counties. I don't think my lowband coverage is all that horrible, I just think it is a little worse than many other similarly priced scanners. Also, can someone more experienced at antennas tell me if it is better to use an external antenna (like a magnet antenna on a car) on a scanner like the PRO-97, or is bigger not better? I've heard (can't remember where) that because the antenna that comes with the scanner is specially tuned for that scanner, it works better than many bigger antennas.
 

BaLa

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nascarfan999 said:
My location varies quite a bit. My main residence is in St. Charles, and I am able to hear it from my house just fine. My main problem is when I am mobile. For example, I will travel to NE Missouri a decent bit, and I lost Troop C in southern Lincoln County. I've seen other scanners pick up Troop C (42.140) well into Pike County. In addition, when I am in NE MO I try to monitor Troop B Macon (42.82), but cannot do so from nearly any part of US 61 in Marion, Lewis, or Clark Counties. I don't think my lowband coverage is all that horrible, I just think it is a little worse than many other similarly priced scanners. Also, can someone more experienced at antennas tell me if it is better to use an external antenna (like a magnet antenna on a car) on a scanner like the PRO-97, or is bigger not better? I've heard (can't remember where) that because the antenna that comes with the scanner is specially tuned for that scanner, it works better than many bigger antennas.
Not sure what kind of car you have :D

I had pretty good luck picking up MSHP LB freqs, with a 5/8 VHF Antenna on a trunklid mount.

I don't think the 'stock' rubber duckys are specially tuned for anything.
Bigger is not always better either. A VHF Antenna wont do to good on 800mhz for example.
It's always best to get an antenna for the band you're listening to.

I almost never used to pickup MSHP (Troop I) when I used to live in Waynesville, until I got an external antenna. The first antenna I put on my car was the RS Magmount.
Some scanners also overload quite easily, my 396t is horrible for that.
 

shaft

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Out here in Wentzville, I can pick up Troop C with no problems with my 97 with the RS 800mhz ducky on it. That antenna is amazing and picks up most bands better that I would expect. When on the road, I use the RS 20-032. Besides picking up Kirkwood crystal clear, I can pick up quite a few mobile extenders as well.
 

nascarfan999

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Let me clarify a couple of things...

1. When I've been mobile, I've only used the rubber ducky antenna. I've only used my larger antenna from fixed locations thus far. I've considered putting the antenna on the car, but I don't do much driving and would rather reap it's advantage when I'm stationary since that's when I do most of my listening.

2. When I mentioned the rubber ducky being specially tuned, I wasn't really talking about the antenna keying in a one band so much as I was referring to what BaLa touched on with the possibility of overloading (if I understand that concept correctly).

Also, does anyone do a lot of testing with their antennas to get the best location at a fixed spot. I can't tell you how many times I've messed around with the placement of my antenna within the room. However, I am finding that there is no one ideal location in the room. I tend to use the NOAA weather stations to test, since they provide a constant stream of traffic from a variety of locations and directions. However, when testing, one day spot A may pick up 2 NOAA stations while spot B picks up none, while the next day spot A is dead quiet and spot B is picking up the 2 stations. Again by "spots," I am referring to two locations within a couple feet of each other, not miles away. I know they say reception is as much an art as a science, but it can get really frustrating.
 

mjthomas59

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Nascar, if you are wanting better reception for the patrol i would definetely recommend buying an external antenna. If you start getting overload you can turn on the attenuator(not sure how to spell it?). You will get much better reception on VHF HI and VHF Lo, however you will lose significantly on 800mhz(part of it is the antenna is just too big, the other part is the cable(normally rg-58) has a very high loss on higher frequencies). If you don't have one and refuse to put on an external antenna then buy a Diamond rh77ca. That is the best antenna i've used for what i monitor. Does incredible on VHF Lo and VHF Hi, great on UHF, horrible on 800mhz(which i don't monitor much anyway). They are only about 20 bucks and well worth the investment. However, you can get a trunklip mount or gutter mount(depending on your vehicle and personal preference) along with a Tram 5/8 wave vhf antenna and i bet only spend about 40 bucks including shipping, just don't drive into parking garages very often... it will bang on something constantly.

I also live in wentzville and have no issue with pulling in Troop C on 42.14 all the way up into pike county and all the way out to montgomery county. Don't travel south much so can't tell you about any of that. (this is with a bct-8 or pro-2051 and a 5/8 wave antenna) Its been awhile since i used a handheld and went out very far but with a 246 and a 77ca i could pull in 42.14 out in warrenton along with relay tower.

I don't know if anyone else has noticed this but lately i've noticed a loss of reception on 42.10 on all of my scanners. I've only noticed it in St charles county, and it seems fine once i cross over the bridge(either one on the missouri river). Not sure if they adjusted an antenna or what.

Also going back a few posts, i read that post by NJT and was wondering how can a Dispatch center "hand off" dispatching to another troop. How can a (i'm guessing) 110 watt lowband radio(in car) transmit across the entire state? I understand that 3000 or 5000 watts, which ever it is, could travel the state so the dispatcher to trooper comms would most likely be ok i'm sure with a few deadspots, but what about the trooper to dispatch? The radios they have in car will barely cover the troop let alone half the state. They wouldn't have the relay towers in place if they weren't necessary. And good point BaLa, the relays are for trooper to dispatch ONLY.

Excellent discussion!!
 

shaft

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mjthomas59 said:
I don't know if anyone else has noticed this but lately i've noticed a loss of reception on 42.10 on all of my scanners. I've only noticed it in St charles county, and it seems fine once i cross over the bridge(either one on the missouri river). Not sure if they adjusted an antenna or what.

Interesting that you are seeing the reception loss, lately Ive seen the opposite. Troop 'C' is blowing my doors off all over the county with the external antenna. I used to not be able to pick them up when in the house with the 800 ducky on the scanner, but now Im picking them up pretty clear.
 
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