Statewide Search and Rescue Communications Support Team

[SARCommCoord]

**If this is in the wrong forum, please move it**

Amateur Radio Operators and other AUXCOMM specialists.

Disaster Medical Response Systems (dmrsinc.org) is working on a Statewide Search and Rescue Communications Support Team to support the dozen of volunteer Search and Rescue teams in the State. While their is plenty of support at the state level for disasters, it is geared towards fire departments and law enforcement, and not for the volunteer teams. During large deployments for a missing person, teams have to rely on inefficient FRS/GMRS radios to communicate. DMRS is looking to supplement this by providing a volunteer team (Type IV Incident Management Team) that can provide the communications and logistical support for search and rescue teams. This team would likely consist of amateur radio operators and other public safety communications specialists. The ideal plan would be to run field amateur repeaters for logistical and operational support and also to provide a field deployable communications individual to each field team. This project is still in the works, and we are looking for interested volunteers. Those that are interested, please PM me with your email info and any questions.

 

[SARCommCoord]

It should be added that this is not a fly of the moment project, but one that we are working on in cooperation with the State ESF-9 Wilderness SAR Working Group

 

[gesucks]

I am floored that a ESF level official would sponsor any kind IMT as a state level resource that operates off amateur freqs. That goes against all things we practice. Amateur is not intended for primary comms. Not to operate an incident on nor to operate an overhead team (IMT).

 

[SARCommCoord]

Amateur radio will not be used for primary communications. Licensed business band and/or public safety frequencies will be. Amateur radio will be used as a logistical support system as to not tie up primary communications resources. I am not going to get into the debate on whether amateur radio is beneficial for SAR. Plenty of teams around the nation utilize amateur radio for logistics purposes and sometimes operational needs. My initial post stated all of this. This is an Incident Support Team which is entirely different from an IMT. Their are no resources available for the VOLUNTEERS, which is why this project is being conducted.

 

[gesucks]

I am well aware of the difference between a IST and an IMT.

"Type IV Incident Management Team" your words

 

[SARCommCoord]

I am well aware of the difference between a IST and an IMT.

"Type IV Incident Management Team" your words

Incident Support Team. Lets not get caught up on minor details. If you are going to troll this post and offer no benefit to the discussion, Ill just have the moderators handle it. Trolling is against forum rules.

 

[gesucks]

" Their are no resources available for the VOLUNTEERS, which is why this project is being conducted."

This is not true at all. Knowing and having worked with many of the ESF people in Florida and haveing worked as part of or in support of both ISTs and Type 1 IMT's in Florida, I can say 100% that resources that are requested from the State are deployed without concern if the requested agency is volunteer or paid. Florida has a strong ESF2, and Overhead support capability in place.

 

[SARCommCoord]

" Their are no resources available for the VOLUNTEERS, which is why this project is being conducted."

This is not true at all. Knowing and having worked with many of the ESF people in Florida and haveing worked as part of or in support of both ISTs and Type 1 IMT's in Florida, I can say 100% that resources that are requested from the State are deployed without concern if the requested agency is volunteer or paid. Florida has a strong ESF2, and Overhead support capability in place.

Having worked public safety here for nearly a decade, and being in SAR for 8 years, and being deployed on major missing person searches, there is no resources. Resources are available for disasters but volunteer teams are not deployed to those. The state does not deploy IMT or Communication resources to missing person searches. If this overhead was in place, why is the working group that oversees the volunteer SAR teams (and the working group is under the State ESF 9) interested in this project? Once again, you are trolling.

 

[gesucks]

" The state does not deploy IMT or Communication resources to missing person searches"

Sorry, have to throw the BS flag on that play. Please name the date and incident when a request was made through the proper channels for overhead support or comms support and the State refused to supply it.

 

[SARCommCoord]

" The state does not deploy IMT or Communication resources to missing person searches"

Sorry, have to throw the BS flag on that play. Please name the date and incident when a request was made through the proper channels for overhead support or comms support and the State refused to supply it.

You are obviously ignorant as to the process for requesting an IMT. I am starting to question your public safety knowledge. The State DOES NOT DEPLOY IMT IN SUPPORT OF SAR VOLUNTEERS to missing person searches on a LOCAL or COUNTY level. Regardless of who requests it, the SWP will not mobile any IMT for such a localized response. During a missing person search, MULTIPLE volunteer teams deploy without communications assistance from any outside resource. Teams are expected to be self sufficient. The purpose of this team is to provide a resource for the volunteers who deploy. You live in DC, you are ignorant to how SAR works here, stop acting like you know. If you continue to troll this post, I will report you to the moderators.

 

[SARCOMM]

Not sure where you are getting your info EMT.

I have very close ties with several State agencies in FL. Within the past year I can positively verify that at least 4 times a STATE communications asset was requested for a LOCAL SAR incident. Said asset was deployed, and was used to support comms for State, Federal, local, and VOLUNTEER teams.

The key is you have to make the contacts, and network... If you call the right person, and follow the correct process its not an issue. This type of request happens daily in the state, and nation.

 

[SARCommCoord]

Oh really ? And how long have you done SAR? Why is it that this happens to be your first post ? I've been doing SAR for 8 years. I have never had state assets deployed to support volunteer teams at the local or county level and have been on numerous searches. Mobile Command posts are setup to assist law enforcement, but no comms resources are given to the volunteer SAR teams. Who are you even with ?

 

[SARCOMM]

My experience in SAR and public safety is irrelevant, unless you want this post to turn into a pissing match on who has more ribbons on their uniform. If so I promise you that several who have commented already, including me will win.

I do respect and commend you on wanting to further comms as it pertains to volunteer SAR.

To get back to your original post. Assuming I was the IC or Ops Chief for a Sheriffs Office (Who by statute is responsible for SAR in their respective county in FL) and I request any asset, ie.) volunteer SAR, Aviation unit, or a County K-9 unit. I assume, and expect that the asset comes prepared, and self sufficient. To include communications back to the assets command and control personnel. I don't really care as the agency having jurisdiction how you communicate. It could be via smoke signals, as long as you come self contained with your own comms. As long as you can talk to your guys on the field, we don't care.

So with that said I will point out several actual SAR incidents were volunteer teams had boots on the ground, and their command and control personnel could not talk to them. The SO told them to go home, as it became a safety issue.

So why would you send anyone on the field if you cant talk to them? As a volunteer asset you MUST have a communications capability with your own team, or you might as well stay home.

Volunteers are no different than paid professional responders when it comes to comms. I'm not going to take my K-9 in the woods unless I am in contact with my dispatch center. (as a dispatcher you should know this) and a volunteer team wouldn't be expected to do so either.

With that said I'm not sure how your concept would work. Lets say my volunteer team gets called out to a SAR case in Pensacola. With your model, we don't have comms, so we have to wait for your team from Orlando to show up to provide us comms? I don't see how that would work.

Again I commend your efforts,but im confused as why an ESF has any role in this. A local SAR incident is local. an ESF would not be stood up unless the State EOC is involved, and activated. This is a LOCAL Law Enforcement response. Yes the State Warning Point would be notified, but they play absolutely no role in this LOCAL incident. The Sheriff calls the shots, not some EM guy in Tallahassee.

For you and your teams benefit, reach out to your local SO, and Fire Dept, or even radio shop. Make contacts. Orange County has a boatload of assets available. If you network, and show them you and your team are well trained, professional, and able to do the job, you will be surprised on what they will help you with. There are countless volunteer teams who have networked with their City / County and are on their radio system.

Take a step back, there are many many experienced people that have already chimed in on the thread that could help you. You just have to let them.

 

[SARCommCoord]

My experience in SAR and public safety is irrelevant, unless you want this post to turn into a pissing match on who has more ribbons on their uniform. If so I promise you that several who have commented already, including me will win.

I do respect and commend you on wanting to further comms as it pertains to volunteer SAR.

To get back to your original post. Assuming I was the IC or Ops Chief for a Sheriffs Office (Who by statute is responsible for SAR in their respective county in FL) and I request any asset, ie.) volunteer SAR, Aviation unit, or a County K-9 unit. I assume, and expect that the asset comes prepared, and self sufficient. To include communications back to the assets command and control personnel. I don't really care as the agency having jurisdiction how you communicate. It could be via smoke signals, as long as you come self contained with your own comms. As long as you can talk to your guys on the field, we don't care.

So with that said I will point out several actual SAR incidents were volunteer teams had boots on the ground, and their command and control personnel could not talk to them. The SO told them to go home, as it became a safety issue.

So why would you send anyone on the field if you cant talk to them? As a volunteer asset you MUST have a communications capability with your own team, or you might as well stay home.

Volunteers are no different than paid professional responders when it comes to comms. I'm not going to take my K-9 in the woods unless I am in contact with my dispatch center. (as a dispatcher you should know this) and a volunteer team wouldn't be expected to do so either.

With that said I'm not sure how your concept would work. Lets say my volunteer team gets called out to a SAR case in Pensacola. With your model, we don't have comms, so we have to wait for your team from Orlando to show up to provide us comms? I don't see how that would work.

Again I commend your efforts,but im confused as why an ESF has any role in this. A local SAR incident is local. an ESF would not be stood up unless the State EOC is involved, and activated. This is a LOCAL Law Enforcement response. Yes the State Warning Point would be notified, but they play absolutely no role in this LOCAL incident. The Sheriff calls the shots, not some EM guy in Tallahassee.

For you and your teams benefit, reach out to your local SO, and Fire Dept, or even radio shop. Make contacts. Orange County has a boatload of assets available. If you network, and show them you and your team are well trained, professional, and able to do the job, you will be surprised on what they will help you with. There are countless volunteer teams who have networked with their City / County and are on their radio system.

Take a step back, there are many many experienced people that have already chimed in on the thread that could help you. You just have to let them.

The team isn't based in Orlando, and I never said it was. The team I am currently a CommL for has more the enough assets to support our team on major searches, to include a command bus, however, we lack any type of organization to support multiple teams around the state for searches. If you have been in SAR long enough then you would know that multiple teams get called out for most local responses. The team would be organized into zones, each zone having enough personel to support an operation in their zone until additional resources respond. Based on your response and reference to Pensacola, you must be involved with either Bay County or Escambia. It should be noted that we have an individual with rank interested in the project from the latter of the two. This project also has the interest of the person in charge of the State Wilderness SAR working group, which, if you have been I'm SAR long enough, you would know is under the State Fire Chiefs Association. With that being said, it is something that is being considered and is deemed beneficial to volunteers. Now, the team I am currently on is one of the ONLY teams qualified and authorized to respond to the counties we serve where I reside, and we do so professionally and with our own resources. This team in the works, under the direction of DMRS and with grant money, will support the other volunteer teams who may not have the resources to provide reliable communications. In regards to ESF, the Florida Fire Chiefs Association maintains the Wilderness SAR working group under ESF 9, which oversees the volunteers. That is why we would he operating under the direction of them. But just to clarify, I am already on a well established and well known team in Florida. I am already a CommL for that team. This idea is being discussed with other public safety officials other then myself. It isn't my idea, I'm just the messenger reaching out to see if any volunteers are interested

 

[902]

Hi Eric,

How does DMRS interface with NDMS/DMAT or Florida SMRT structure?

 

[SARCommCoord]

Hi Eric,

How does DMRS interface with NDMS/DMAT or Florida SMRT structure?

Dan Schuler, who owns and operates DMRS, was one of the founding board members of the Central Florida Disaster Coalition, which is the non profit that financially supports SMRT-5. Due to political issues and red tape, he created DMRS. Florida DOH allows qualified entities to contract with them to provide disaster medical support, and that is how DMRS can be and is incorporated with already established teams. DMRS is staffed with EMT, Paramedics and RN's, and is overseen by a Medical Director who provides online and standing order protocols. Currently, DMRS supports various events around the state by providing medical support, and also provides medical support for storm research teams in the Mid West. DMRS is also in the process of establishing a Wildland Fire Medical Support Team. As for training, the Incident Support Team of DMRS all hold either FEMA Professeional Development Series or Advanced Development Series certifications, and ICS 300 and 400. This allows us to interface with the State and Federal teams. Almost all of us have continued training and have taken IMT required specialty courses.

 

[PJH]

It's actually COML Eric, not CommL. Those who are know this and is plastered all over the ICS structure training resources and programs.

I happen to know a poster or two in this thread and they know exactly what they are talking about and have worked at the state and federal level in active SAR missions and other capacities.

I do not know if this is the case or not, but that's the perception.

 

[SARCommCoord]

It's actually COML Eric, not CommL. Those who are know this and is plastered all over the ICS structure training resources and programs.

I happen to know a poster or two in this thread and they know exactly what they are talking about and have worked at the state and federal level in active SAR missions and other capacities.

You may not be realizing it, but your coming off as "yet another ham" who wants to for a group to go play Ricky Rescue and become involved in public safety in some distant capacity.

I do not know if this is the case or not, but that's the perception.

I am already on a very well established and VERY well known in Florida and very active SAR team. I do not need to create another team to get my jollies. The SAR-IST is a project being funded by dmrsinc.org, Disaster Medical Response Systems. Please do some research. Your ignorance is showing. And please, don't try and question my knowledge of ICS. I would be more then happy to engage in a pissing match with you and throw certificates, training and real life experience your way.

 

[PJH]

You completely missed the point.

It doesn't matter who funds what. Anyone can be "funded" but it doesn't make it legitiment - blue hements or pink ones.

Again, you missed the point.

 

[SARCommCoord]

You completely missed the point.

It doesn't matter who funds what. Anyone can be "funded" but it doesn't make it legitiment - blue hements or pink ones.

Again, you missed the point.

No, you MISSED the point. I will lay it out for you again, and I will type slower for you; project is being worked in conjunction with the State Wilderness Search and Rescue working group, a division of the Florida Association of Search and Rescue, which is under the Florida Fire Chiefs Association, who is in charge of ESF-9. This is not just a bunch of hams in hoverrounds trying to be needed. This is a group of active public safety professionals, EMT's, PMD, Public Safety Dispatchers who are working to better organize the volunteer SAR teams in Florida. If resources were available, then we would not be undertaking this project.The local agencies do not provide communications support for teams, as i have stated before, at least not in any county we have responded to. As the COML for my current team, I have received numerous compliments from agencies in regards to our communication an incident support setup. I have even had local officers come forward and ask if I could program their radios to be able to communicate with the SAR volunteers! Now of course, we utilize 8TAC wiht other agencies when it is being utilized, however, other teams do not have these resources. That is the point of DMRS (an already established agency) taking on this project.