Strange Question: RF burns and birds

Status
Not open for further replies.

synthetik

Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2013
Messages
98
I have a vertical monopole attached to my base station rig with a set of ground plane radials attached at the feed point. Local small birds have taken to occasionally landing on the horizontal radials. I'm wondering what is the likelihood that they would receive RF burns if I'm transmitting up to 50 watts UHF/VHF (probably closer to 40-45 watts with feed line loss). Would this only happen if they were in contact with the vertical antenna element or do the radials present the same danger? How bad would it be? I don't want to fry one of these poor little guys.

Thanks in advance!
 

synthetik

Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2013
Messages
98
Good news, and thank you for the reference link. I searched but could not find anything definitive.
 

majoco

Stirrer
Joined
Dec 25, 2008
Messages
4,283
Location
New Zealand
I went to Rugby Radio in the UK in the 70's and remarked to the tech that I was there to see and remarked on the complete absence of small bird around the antennas - he said that they don't like the VLF transmitter, 500kW on 16kHz or two 300kW transmitters and other on 60kHz - all going
continuously at that time.

250px-Hillmorton_radio_masts.jpg
 

prcguy

Member
Joined
Jun 30, 2006
Messages
15,339
Location
So Cal - Richardson, TX - Tewksbury, MA
There is the same amount of RF present on ground radials as there is on the vertical element but the current is divided between the number of radials and the radials do not radiate due to equal currents traveling in opposite directions. That is with a perfect ground plane with tuned equal length radials.

A vertical with a single ground radial is simply a inverted V dipole on its side and in that case the ground radial will radiate the same as the vertical element because there are no other radials running in opposite directions to cancel radiation.

I'm thinking that there would not be any RF on the radials. Am I thinking wrong?
 

prcguy

Member
Joined
Jun 30, 2006
Messages
15,339
Location
So Cal - Richardson, TX - Tewksbury, MA
As far as birds having a problem in the OPs first post, I don't think so. They are very small compared to the wavelength at VHF/UHF and the radiation off the antenna is spread out some over the length of the antenna, so a bird sitting on a ground radial is only getting a tiny fraction of what the entire antenna radiates. At least all this is true at the power levels the OP would be operating at. If he were running 50-100kW that would be a different story and birds would probably be affected.

Last time I was at Mt Wilson in So Cal, probably one of the busiest and highest powered mountain tops in the country, there are always pigeons walking around on the ground bumping in to things and falling over and they can't fly. These got too close to the dozens of high power TV and FM broadcast antennas and are now all jacked up.

I can and have stood in large high power satellite uplink dishes while on air with several thousand watts at very bad frequencies. The thing that makes it safe for short periods of time is the RF energy is spread out over a 30 to 36ft reflector and the energy level in my little space is a small fraction of the total power. If I were to get my hand between the feed horn and sub reflector of the same antenna it would probably burn my skin and cause damage pretty fast because the RF is concentrated in a very small area there. A bird would also have a problem camping out on a high power satellite antenna feed horn.
 

prcguy

Member
Joined
Jun 30, 2006
Messages
15,339
Location
So Cal - Richardson, TX - Tewksbury, MA
I might add that I don't just jump into hot satellite dishes and don't recommend doing so without first measuring RF levels. I have and carry Narda personal RF monitors and have a Narda field probe to measure for acceptable levels before entering a dish or climbing a tower with hot antennas.
 

synthetik

Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2013
Messages
98
Thanks again all, answered my original question and I learned a bit from the back and forth discussion.
 

W5lz

Active Member
Joined
Feb 28, 2019
Messages
617
I'm thinking that there would not be any RF on the radials. Am I thinking wrong?

Yes, there is RF on radicals. They are the 'other-half' of the antenna aren't they? Remember, RF is AC...
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top