Struggle with Close Call SDS100/BC125AT finding frequency

[avaloncourt]

I go to a lot of dirt track racing at various facilities and I've run into a frustrating situation at one specific track. I attempt to identify all of the facility operational frequencies and, in general, have had great success with the exception of one location. I am able to monitor the Raceceiver (track to car) frequency which is universal to all tracks. At this particular location I can't locate the on-track crew operations frequency.

I have tried to use Close Call on multiple occasions with both a SDS100 and BC125AT with absolutely no luck at all. This is usually easy at most tracks. I've tried to look up radio licenses with the FCC with no luck at all. The licenses that I get are long expired from a prior owner of the track. I haven't been able to get a view of the radios/radio antennas to give me some hints as to what they're using as the track staff have the radios inside of their safety suits with a headset.

I think I can be fairly confident that they're not using a digital mode as this track struggles with funding and wouldn't go to that expense. I've never run into digital at any track I attend. They're all using analog internal communications.

Does anyone have any other thoughts on identifying the frequency in use?

Location: Michael's Mercer Raceway, 555 Fairground Rd, Mercer, PA 16137 - Mercer County, Pennsylvania

 

[n1chu]

A couple of thoughts…

You say they are running on a shoestring-It may be they are leasing a comms system on a monthly or seasonal basis and the vendor is using encryption or another mode?

Approach the track officials and learn who has knowledge of what they are doing. It’s not a secret and while they could blow off your inquiry, if you told them what you were after nicely, they might be forthcoming and tell you what they can. I’ve asked in the past and have been told everything from “It’s none of your business” to “Sorry, we run an encrypted system” or “it’s a Nextel walkie-talkie phone that uses cell phone channels” to “Here ya go”, and they give you what you need.

Another way of learning more about the race tracks comms is to look for others who, like you, are monitoring and ask them. I’m sure they have wondered and found an answer or gave up. But in either case, they can tell you what they have tried so you don’t have to duplicate their efforts.

Hope this helps.

 

[a417]

I'll bet it's a cell phone data based PTT system...hell, could be zello?

 

[donc13]

The tracks I have gone to (for IMSA racing) have all the crew-driver radios licensed and supplied by the owner of the car. The officiating group uses their own radios too. The "track radios" are usually only for track crew. And yes, in IMSA's case, the crew and officials went to all digital about 5 years ago.

Obviously, that may or may not apply to small local tracks but the best way to find out is to ask one of the car crew, or better yet, the owner, what radios they are using, etc.

 

[avaloncourt]

I've already tried a couple of times to politely obtain the information through them. Once to the track ownership directly and they ignored me and once through someone who was previously employed by the track as on-track staff but he is very non-technical but could provide no information at all.

I actively look for people monitoring but I seem to be the only one wearing/carrying any listening devices there.

A couple of thoughts…

You say they are running on a shoestring-It may be they are leasing a comms system on a monthly or seasonal basis and the vendor is using encryption or another mode?

Approach the track officials and learn who has knowledge of what they are doing. It’s not a secret and while they could blow off your inquiry, if you told them what you were after nicely, they might be forthcoming and tell you what they can. I’ve asked in the past and have been told everything from “It’s none of your business” to “Sorry, we run an encrypted system” or “it’s a Nextel walkie-talkie phone that uses cell phone channels” to “Here ya go”, and they give you what you need.

Another way of learning more about the race tracks comms is to look for others who, like you, are monitoring and ask them. I’m sure they have wondered and found an answer or gave up. But in either case, they can tell you what they have tried so you don’t have to duplicate their efforts.

Hope this helps.

 

[avaloncourt]

In dirt-track racing there are no crew/car radios. That's forbidden by the rules. The drivers are required to have a Raceceiver radio and earpieces but that's one-way instructions from the race director to the cars. The only communication dirt-track drivers can get from their crews are from spotters positioned along the track providing visual hand signals.

I'm looking for facility staff frequencies, specifically for the safety/recovery people.

The tracks I have gone to (for IMSA racing) have all the crew-driver radios licensed and supplied by the owner of the car. The officiating group uses their own radios too. The "track radios" are usually only for track crew. And yes, in IMSA's case, the crew and officials went to all digital about 5 years ago.

Obviously, that may or may not apply to small local tracks but the best way to find out is to ask one of the car crew, or better yet, the owner, what radios they are using, etc.

 

[avaloncourt]

I'll bet it's a cell phone data based PTT system...hell, could be zello?

Since I can't seem to locate an operational frequency, that's certainly a possibility but I've never seen a track headset interface with a phone.

 

[Scan125]

A question for my education and possibly an answer for the OP.

With Close Call is it bandwidth limited. e.g. you have your scanner either scanning or searching exclusively in to 100MHz to 150MHz range. If a close/strong transmission pops up on say 50MHz to 200MHz will the scanner's Close Call still trigger?

One would think that Close Call is triggered from the raw untuned RF front end. But if all the local frequencies are very strong and in the scan range then they are all Close Call are they not?

 

[a417]

A question for my education and possibly an answer for the OP.

With Close Call is it bandwidth limited. e.g. you have your scanner either scanning or searching exclusively in to 100MHz to 150MHz range. If a close/strong transmission pops up on say 50MHz to 200MHz will the scanner's Close Call still trigger?

One would think that Close Call is triggered from the raw untuned RF front end. But if all the local frequencies are very strong and in the scan range then they are all Close Call are they not?

The unit will only recieve frequencies it is designed to recieve. If it is so close, so strong and outside of the range, the unit won't be able to correctly decode/rx it, and it could display something on whatever frequency it decides to, if at all. Or it could sit there and be overwhelmed and do nothing at all.

I have some high power sites within a couple hundred yards of my residence, one of which is well below my device's frequency bandwidth. If i take it up near to it and put on CC, it randomly locks up on frequencies within its range and buzzes. Info on the screen clearly isn't correct, its usually a different freq. each time, but it's wholly unreliable.

One of the aforementioned transmitters is a flamethrowing country music station that will show up as images in the VHF high band, and lower UHF regions even if I have the CC broadcast filter enabled for FM broadcast, it's a nature of the beast.

a bit more about close call -> linky

 

[mmckenna]

I don't have a scanner with Close Call, but how well do they handle TDMA? Is it possible they are running DMR and the scanner won't handle the TDMA signal?

 

[tweiss3]

I don't have a scanner with Close Call, but how well do they handle TDMA? Is it possible they are running DMR and the scanner won't handle the TDMA signal?

This is possible. It is the only downfall to the CloseCall feature. Won't pick up simplex, but will pick up a repeater if there is one.

 

[avaloncourt]

I don't have a scanner with Close Call, but how well do they handle TDMA? Is it possible they are running DMR and the scanner won't handle the TDMA signal?

As I noted in the original post, I don't believe they'd be using a digital mode. They're struggling financially and that's the last thing they'd sink money into. I've not seen any dirt track I've been to in the region using digital. They're all analog.

 

[KevinC]

My guess....and I could be completely wrong.

They are using FRS, which at .5 watts max you have to pretty darn close to CC them. Add in a strong in-band signal and your screwed since CC needs a signal about 18 dB above ANY other in-band signal to trigger.

Just my guess though.

 

[mmckenna]

As I noted in the original post, I don't believe they'd be using a digital mode. They're struggling financially and that's the last thing they'd sink money into. I've not seen any dirt track I've been to in the region using digital. They're all analog.

Ok, makes sense.
But if the radios were purchased in the last few years, it's getting more and more difficult to get analog only radios of any decent quality. Most are analog + digital in some flavor, so it may not come down to economics.

If you can get a photo of the radio, or a really good description, someone might be able to identify it and give you some useful info.

 

[avaloncourt]

My guess....and I could be completely wrong.

They are using FRS, which at .5 watts max you have to pretty darn close to CC them. Add in a strong in-band signal and your screwed since CC needs a signal about 18 dB above ANY other in-band signal to trigger.

Just my guess though.

I've actually been wondering about FRS/GMRS. I checked for a GMRS license. I'm going to program the 125AT with all of the FRS/GMRS frequencies for tomorrow and see if I get lucky and that's it. That would definitely support the low-budget aspect.

 

[avaloncourt]

Ok, makes sense.
But if the radios were purchased in the last few years, it's getting more and more difficult to get analog only radios of any decent quality. Most are analog + digital in some flavor, so it may not come down to economics.

If you can get a photo of the radio, or a really good description, someone might be able to identify it and give you some useful info.

I also mentioned that I've not been able to see the radios or that would help immensely. Their radios are inside their safety suits and there's a wire to the headsets. I heard one in a bathroom a couple weeks ago but the person was in a stall. So, no view of it.

 

[KevinC]

I also mentioned that I've not been able to see the radios or that would help immensely. Their radios are inside their safety suits and there's a wire to the headsets. I heard one in a bathroom a couple weeks ago but the person was in a stall. So, no view of it.

You couldn't peek over or under?

 

[mmckenna]

You couldn't peek over or under?

It's only weird if you get caught.

 

[avaloncourt]

It's only weird if you get caught.

Yeaaaaaah. Because I want to get caught peeking in a stall by some beered up redneck at a racetrack. That'll go well.

 

[mmckenna]

Yeaaaaaah. Because I want to get caught peeking in a stall by some beered up redneck at a racetrack. That'll go well.

You never know, Bubba might swing that way…. Bubba may have done some time in the slammer.