• Effective immediately we will be deleting, without notice, any negative threads or posts that deal with the use of encryption and streaming of scanner audio.

    We've noticed a huge increase in rants and negative posts that revolve around agencies going to encryption due to the broadcasting of scanner audio on the internet. It's now worn out and continues to be the same recycled rants. These rants hijack the threads and derail the conversation. They no longer have a place anywhere on this forum other than in the designated threads in the Rants forum in the Tavern.

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    https://forums.radioreference.com/rants/224104-official-thread-live-audio-feeds-scanners-wait-encryption.html

Stupid DMR encryption question

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#2
Part 90 licensees can use encryption. P25 DES Encryption protocol must be used (90.553). The current ETSI DMR standards do not support encryption. If it's out there, it's proprietary. How it's legality within part 90 might work, I'm not really sure. It's probably simply a case of technology outpacing regulations, in which case one could assume that once ETSI standards are settled, it could be incorporated within 90.553 - which in and of itself DOES allow encryption.

Part 97 licensees cannot use encryption, and there is no differentiation as to what form of emission is used.

That being said, there are a couple of loopholes regarding encryption within Part 97... one is for satellite telecommand. The other is in 97.113 (Prohibited Transmissions), where it states "messages encoded for the purpose of obscuring their meaning" are prohibited.

There are some digital modes (16QAM or 64QAM for example) where the baseband data is scrambled in order to create a constant emission mask, as opposed to one that constantly changes depending on traffic loading. Encrypting for that reason would presumably be legal, because it's to control the RF emissions mask, not to obscure the meaning of the message. That would not apply to a DMR signal, though.
 
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poltergeisty

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#3
Part 90 licensees can use encryption. P25 DES Encryption protocol must be used (90.553). The current ETSI DMR standards do not support encryption. If it's out there, it's proprietary. How it's legality within part 90 might work, I'm not really sure. It's probably simply a case of technology outpacing regulations, in which case one could assume that once ETSI standards are settled, it could be incorporated withing 90.553 - which in and of itself DOES allow encryption.
I have the software for this radio and it has encryption. Is that not allowed?
 

Thunderknight

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#4
Part 90 licensees can use encryption. P25 DES Encryption protocol must be used (90.553). The current ETSI DMR standards do not support encryption. If it's out there, it's proprietary. How it's legality within part 90 might work, I'm not really sure. It's probably simply a case of technology outpacing regulations, in which case one could assume that once ETSI standards are settled, it could be incorporated within 90.553 - which in and of itself DOES allow encryption.
90.553 only applies to 700 MHz. It has no bearing on VHF or UHF.
 
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#9
You didn't say where you were located, so I will give the information that I am aware of. In Canada, from what Industry Canada has said, it is legal to use encryption on the amateur frequencies as long as you use a key that is published. If you don't make the key available to everyone, you can't encrypt.
 
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#10
It's very simple where I live. The repeater owner has stated there will be no encrypted transmissions on his repeater. It's a closed system, so only people he knows can access the machine. Use encryption, & your access is terminated.
 
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#11
You didn't say where you were located, so I will give the information that I am aware of. In Canada, from what Industry Canada has said, it is legal to use encryption on the amateur frequencies as long as you use a key that is published. If you don't make the key available to everyone, you can't encrypt.
Interesting how Canada and the US are different on encryption in the ham bands. What's ironic, is that if the encryption key is publicly available to anyone/everyone, doesn't that negate the purpose of encryption? That's like putting a sign on your front door that says "Door is locked so that no one may enter. There is a spare key under the door mat. Come on in."

Since Amateur Radio is not designed to be a private means of communication, why would anyone need/want to use encryption in the ham bands, except for experimentation? No answer needed, that was a rhetorical question, and one that has been beaten to death on here.
 
B

Brookeff

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#12
+1, agree
Interesting how Canada and the US are different on encryption in the ham bands. What's ironic, is that if the encryption key is publicly available to anyone/everyone, doesn't that negate the purpose of encryption? That's like putting a sign on your front door that says "Door is locked so that no one may enter. There is a spare key under the door mat. Come on in."

Since Amateur Radio is not designed to be a private means of communication, why would anyone need/want to use encryption in the ham bands, except for experimentation? No answer needed, that was a rhetorical question, and one that has been beaten to death on here.
 
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