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Testing a Motorola Minitor II

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Kevin_CCR

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I'm decently new to pagers and have come across a couple Minitor II's that are UHF. I was wondering if there was a safe way to test the pagers to ensure they alert correctly. My local county is all P25 but I believe they use Unication Alpha pagers. As I don't want to interfere with their frequencies, I was looking for a safe way to test the pagers. What is the best way to go about testing them?
 

GTR8000

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Find someone with a service monitor that can generate tones.
 

mmckenna

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Is there any problems with transmitting the tones on the frequency the minitors are already programmed to?

Are you licensed to transmit on that frequency? Is that frequency in use anywhere close to you?

Also, is it possible to generate the tones myself?

Several commercial radios will generate 2 tone pages. You'll need to know what the pager is programmed for.
I'm sure there are computer programs that will do it. It's not hard to generate the tones.
 

Kevin_CCR

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Are you licensed to transmit on that frequency? Is that frequency in use anywhere close to you?



Several commercial radios will generate 2 tone pages. You'll need to know what the pager is programmed for.
I'm sure there are computer programs that will do it. It's not hard to generate the tones.
Since I live in King County, Fire/EMS and Police are all P25. I'm working on getting my Ham license and was hoping to try ad test the pagers once I got it. I believe they are programmed for 423.7750 and from what I can tell with researching, this frequency is unused. I may be wrong on that though.
 

GTR8000

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Having a ham license has absolutely nothing to do with authorizing you to transmit on public safety frequencies. If you are not specifically licensed by the FCC to transmit on 423.775 under a public safety license, then you're operating illegally.

You asked what the safest and best way to test the pagers would be, ensuring that you don't interfere with any agencies that might be using the frequency in question. The answer is to take them to a radio shop or qualified person who can test them with a service monitor or other legally authorized means.

I believe you once mentioned that you're an Explorer, correct? If so, then you're still relatively young and probably gung ho about a lot of this stuff which is new to you. I get it, we've all been there at some point, but try not to pick up bad habits right out of the gate. Yes, you can probably find a radio that will transmit QCII tones on that frequency, or you can use a computer to generate tones to play through a microphone...but frankly that's not the right way to go about it. No offense to @mmckenna, although I'm sure he understands the point I'm making, being a system admin himself. ;)
 

Kevin_CCR

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Having a ham license has absolutely nothing to do with authorizing you to transmit on public safety frequencies. If you are not specifically licensed by the FCC to transmit on 423.775 under a public safety license, then you're operating illegally.

You asked what the safest and best way to test the pagers would be, ensuring that you don't interfere with any agencies that might be using the frequency in question. The answer is to take them to a radio shop or qualified person who can test them with a service monitor or other legally authorized means.

I believe you once mentioned that you're an Explorer, correct? If so, then you're still relatively young and probably gung ho about a lot of this stuff which is new to you. I get it, we've all been there at some point, but try not to pick up bad habits right out of the gate. Yes, you can probably find a radio that will transmit QCII tones on that frequency, or you can use a computer to generate tones to play through a microphone...but frankly that's not the right way to go about it. No offense to @mmckenna, although I'm sure he understands the point I'm making, being a system admin himself. ;)
Yeah I am still an explorer and am pretty gung ho about it :LOL:. Thats why I keep posting on here, I want to do all the research I can about it to avoid picking up on bad habits. Thank you for all the information. But quick question, how can you tell what is being used as an emergency frequency in my area? I'm mostly using radio reference and other various forums.
 

mmckenna

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No offense to @mmckenna, although I'm sure he understands the point I'm making, being a system admin himself. ;)

No offense taken, and I agree with what you said.

@ Kevin_CCR
423.7750 is in the 70 centimeter amateur radio band in the USA. With an amateur license, you could transmit on that frequency legally. The band plans suggest those frequencies are used for amateur TV use.

With a proper radio, you could legally test these WHEN you get your amateur radio license.
But there's really only so much you can do with a 2 tone pager on 70cm. The receivers on these things won't cover anything useful, and there's no public safety stuff in that section of the band.
But they are crystal controlled receivers, so changing frequencies isn't simple, and the receiver boards only allow you to go so far. Other than listing to amateur radio chatter, or setting up some sort of paging system on your own, there's not a lot you can do with them. And after carrying one for a while back in the 90's, they get boring/annoying really quick.

I've hung on to a few old VHF pagers at work. I've often toyed with re-crystaling them, but then I realize it's a lot of work for a single channel receiver.
 

Kevin_CCR

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No offense taken, and I agree with what you said.

@ Kevin_CCR
423.7750 is in the 70 centimeter amateur radio band in the USA. With an amateur license, you could transmit on that frequency legally. The band plans suggest those frequencies are used for amateur TV use.

So since the 70cm band is suggested for amateur TV use, does that mean you should avoid HAM operation on it? Also, are there any regulations or restrictions on transmitting tones to test alert the pagers? I would assume there are some regulations or something but I'm not able to find a solid answer on google.
 

mmckenna

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So since the 70cm band is suggested for amateur TV use, does that mean you should avoid HAM operation on it? Also, are there any regulations or restrictions on transmitting tones to test alert the pagers? I would assume there are some regulations or something but I'm not able to find a solid answer on google.

The amateur radio band plans are a suggestion. Sort of a gentleman's agreement. Others like it when you follow the band plan. Others may, heck their amateurs, will complain if you are not in the right place. But it's not a violation of the amateur license.

As long as you properly ID your signal with your FCC issued call sign, stay within the bands, and don't cause interference, you'd be good.

Amateur TV is still used, but it's not as popular as some would like you to think. For short tests of a pager, and if you do it on an unused frequency, you're probably going to be OK.
 

kb4mdz

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Long explanations to answer several questions at once and anticipate some others:

Back in 'the olden days' pagers like Minitors were tested in a Motorola RTL-1005A Universal Radiation Test fixture;


You would connect your signal generator/ service monitor to the BNC connector at the right hand side, and lay the pager face down in the fixture, and generate a very low-level RF signal to it. Ideally, just enough to set off the pager, and while it was in there, adjust the RF tuning controls in the Receiver section for best sensitivity.

The little toggle-clamp assembly would flip down and contact ground and a receiver metering point to measure from. Keep reducing the RF output of your service monitor, tweak the coils & caps in the Receiver, 'til you can't make it any better.

Really really well set up radio shops had the pager test bench in an RF screen room, so no outside signal could get in and interfere with your on frequency tests, and no signal from the generator inside could get out and set of pagers unwittingly.

In a pinch, you can put a rubber duck antenna on the generator's output port, do a very low signal, and lay the pager right alongside the duck; not as precise, but a good quick check.

All this assumes you have a proper piece of RF signal generator (and most for the last decades also include two-tone encoding). Trying to use a portable programmed with frequency & tones will tell you the pager receives, but not the basic sensitivity.

Along the US-Canadian border is a thing called "Line A" roughly paralleling the border and about 75 miles from it, (It's Line B inside Canada), where radio frequency coordination for business and public safety licenses have to be also cleared thru the opposite country's authority, and

Here's a good page from WWARA:

And another mapping effort, zoomable:

And here is finally some meat of the matter, again from WWARA:

Down near the bottom of that document, you'll see a footnote that Amateur operation cannot be in 420 MHz to 430 MHz, north of Line A. Because that range is used for their (business? public safety? what else?) radios.

If you go over to Buffalo & Erie County NY, (Erie County, New York (NY) Scanner Frequencies and Radio Frequency Reference) you'll see lots of Public Safety frequency use between 420 & 430 MHz. Buffalo, Rochester, and such are within Line A, so they can get coordinated for frequencies in that range and hams must stay out.

I looked at several counties in Washington that are within Line A, but I don't see them using this range.

Since you're in King County, Line A runs right thru your county. Down in the rest of U.S., your 423.7750 would normally be in the ham band, but not where you are.

In spite of growing up south of Buffalo, I only got my ham license after moving here in North Carolina, so I've never learned the particulars of Line A operation, rules, etc. When I've visited back home, I typically don't do much ham time, esp. on 70 cm, and even then it would generally be on established ham repeaters listed in the directories.

All that said, don't lose your gung-ho for this radio stuff. (aside: very funny movie, when Michael Keaton was young. 'Between a rock and a hard-on')(but I digress again). Up in your neck of the woods, this Line A stuff makes life complicated. And somewhat last, Minitor II's are I think the last of the crystal-based pagers; if you want to change frequency, it's gonna cost a fair amount. You could move it into the ham range where you are, but that would take a list of expensive or almost unobtainium equipment and a long learning curve.

I've probably raised more questions than I've answered but I figured I would try to answer some of the ones you're heading towards anyway.
 

RFI-EMI-GUY

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Edit: I had not refreshed to page to see the above post which is spot on^^

In general, when pagers are tested by a radio shop, they do so inside a screen room (Faraday Cage) with a special adapter to couple a calibrated signal level into the pager antenna. In this way, neither the pager under test nor pagers in the vicinity are interfered with. With a signal generator set to a very low level into a small wire loop on your workbench you can do this testing and not bother anyone.
 

kb4mdz

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Edit: I had not refreshed to page to see the above post which is spot on^^

In general, when pagers are tested by a radio shop, they do so inside a screen room (Faraday Cage) with a special adapter to couple a calibrated signal level into the pager antenna. In this way, neither the pager under test nor pagers in the vicinity are interfered with. With a signal generator set to a very low level into a small wire loop on your workbench you can do this testing and not bother anyone.



You must run in a better class of general radio shops than I have. :)

I've been to maybe 18 or so radio shops, and only 2 had screen rooms, and 1 of those was home-brew with hardware cloth.

The shop I trained at in 1988 was less than 5 miles from 2 100Watt VHF paging TX. You could not do any testing, either frequency, just before lunch or quitting time. The TX signal would swamp your service monitor signal at the test jig. SPLATTTTT!!!!
 

RFI-EMI-GUY

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You must run in a better class of general radio shops than I have. :)

I've been to maybe 18 or so radio shops, and only 2 had screen rooms, and 1 of those was home-brew with hardware cloth.

The shop I trained at in 1988 was less than 5 miles from 2 100Watt VHF paging TX. You could not do any testing, either frequency, just before lunch or quitting time. The TX signal would swamp your service monitor signal at the test jig. SPLATTTTT!!!!

Back in about 1979 I was working for Motorola in Schaumburg. Apparently there was some production problem at the Mount Pleasant Iowa factory and I along with another guy got invited by the product manager Al Cash to fly out there in his Cessna to help out. We got there and I noticed that the final test department had "modified" the screen room with a hole so that the assembly line rollers would end up inside the screen room. A huge honking hole. I asked about it and they told be they were tired of opening the doors. I am sure there could have been a better engineered solution. But I guess being in a huge cornfield in middle of no where made a screen room a dumb expense.
 
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