TETRA system

[Emoney250]

I hear that my local PD may be going to a TETRA system. they currently use a Motorola analog trunked system. Is there any scanner (future) that will be able to monitor this system?

 

[PanJurekMrJerry]

I read, somewhere on the web, that there might be or is already a device or scanner that might let you monitor either TETRA or MPT1327 Sorry, wish that I could help you more. TETRA is really more popular in Euro Contries ( Europe ) excpet in the UK where they use some form of MPT1327. Other countries also use TETRA and MPT1327.

Canada uses practically the same as we do here, Poland uses some AGEIS. TERTA and MPT is used here but not as much as MOTO, EDACS, & Regular LTR. MultiNet LTR is used by the State Of Washing D.O.T. although scanners cannot monitor it because scanners are desinged to recieve Regular LTR which uses subaudible controlers on each repeater where as MultiNet LTR uses a regular Control Frequency like MOTO or EDACS does.

I hope that this helps.

 

[ianw]

Hi

TETRA is a digital radio system which is encrypted by default.

There are no scanners available for monitoring TETRA and because of the encryption I am 99.99% sure there ever will be.

Sorry

Ian

 

[marsu211]

Hi all,

Below is a link to a site thathas ALL the necessary information about TETRA and similar systems used by major Police and Emergency forces, more and more in Europe and particular here in Switzerland.

www.ascom.com/securitysolutions

I wish I could upload the pdf files that are available on their site, but for those interested I let you download them from there directly.

As for systems used in Switzerland in particular we have:

AST : Digital System ASTRO/APCO 25 (Motorola)
DIS : Digital System DISCO (Ascom/Crypto)
TET : Digital System Tetra
TEP : Digital System Tetrapol

Tetrapol is a system that has been developped by Matra France.
Go to their site for more info.

The DISCO system is the one that is currently used by some PD's such for:

Geneva, Zürich, Bern, and Basel Stadt

Basel Land is using a stndard APCO compatible system

Vaud are still on a conventional FM, like most FD's.

It is however planned to get ALL emergency services on a POLYCOM system (basd on the Tetrapol from Matra), by 2006.

Well, no good news here, but at least some info.

Rgds

marsu

 

[PanJurekMrJerry]

Well this: www.ascom.com/securitysolutions is all in another language. I can only read English.

 

[marsu211]

Well you had the choice to choose "EN" to have it in english.

Here it comes

http://www.ascom.com/ecore/WebObjec...teNodeID_59777_contentID_-1_languageID_1.html


Rgds

marsu

 

[mdulrich]

In the upper right of the page is a button labeled EN. This displays the English version.

Mike

 

[DaveH]

Canada uses practically the same as we do here, Poland uses some AGEIS. TERTA and MPT is used here but not as much as MOTO, EDACS, & Regular LTR.

There are definitely MPT-1327 systems in Canada, and I believe in the US. Without reasonable-cost decoding means, many probably were not aware of their existance. The 450MHz system around here uses Tait radios, but the network equipment is unknown, most likely not Moto.

TETRA is the U.S.? I didn't think there are, but definitely in Mexico; listed on this TRS Database (even though they can't be monitored).

Dave

 

[mr_hankey]

isn't there also a specification called TETRAPOL that has something to do with end-to-end encryption? (not just over-the-air)

i cannot remember which one is worse from a radio hobbyist standpoint: TETRA or TETRAPOL.

 

[SCPD]

http://www.bakom.ch/imperia/md/content/english/telecomdienste/factsheets/5.pdf

Tetrapol is a digital, cellular trunked radio system for voice and data communication. Tetrapol1 was originally developed by Matra Communication, France. Today, Tetrapol technology is supported and is being further developed by two organisations: the Tetrapol Forum (predominantly manufacturers) and the Tetrapol User's Club (user organisations).

Tetrapol must not be confused with the similar sounding TETRA system. TETRA was developed by the recognised European Telecommunications Standardisation Institute (ETSI) – in co-operation with the industry – and is therefore the only recognised standard for digital trunked radio systems in Europe. A brief comparison of Tetrapol and TETRA is provided in chapter 2.

-rick

 

[CqDx]

I read an article somewhere mentioned that the TETRA system is basiclly for Europe and Asia (at least where Moto. targeted) while the APCO 25 Standard is for the US.

 

[thesniktaws]

Is this what you are looking for?

http://www.tetrascanner.com/

 

[SCPD]

That's a start but if you read the specs, the radio will scan a tetra system but not decode it - no talkgroups, radio ids, or voice.

You'll need to find some software to decode the radio's the discriminator output. Is there anything out there for the hobbyist to do this?

-rick

 

[koxinga]

isn't there also a specification called TETRAPOL that has something to do with end-to-end encryption? (not just over-the-air)

i cannot remember which one is worse from a radio hobbyist standpoint: TETRA or TETRAPOL.

Both are equally worse. End to end encryption is only part of the pie.

For TETRA, Motorola's Dimetra system is getting more and more popular. They will be using it for the 2004 Olympics in Athens.

For TETRAPOL, the main player now is only EADS Telecom and their market share is shrinking.

 

[Raccon]

Both are equally worse. End to end encryption is only part of the pie.

I would say TETRA is worst: AFAIK TETRAPOL does not have Air Interface Encryption (AIE), unlike TETRA, and therefore has to rely on End-to-End Encryption (E2EE) only.
AIE however not only encrypts the communication but also the signalling, i.e. user and group IDs etc. This is an important aspect since it prevents tracing call activities / behaviour of individual subscribers or groups.

AIE in TETRA is optional, with authentication then being mandatory. As E2EE is transparent to the network it can be used with TETRA, too, but should never be used as a substitute for AIE. Instead E2EE in TETRA is more like an added bonus were highest protection/confidentiality is required and thus usually reserved for very secretive (government) organizations.

If I am not mistaken there is currently only one manufacturer (Thales) that makes E2EE TETRA terminals while others offer the interface only (or no such option at all).

I read an article somewhere mentioned that the TETRA system is basiclly for Europe and Asia (at least where Moto. targeted) while the APCO 25 Standard is for the US.

TETRA was initially intended for the European market only, then called Trans-European Trunked Radio. However later it was marketed outside of Europe also and hence renamed into Terrestial Trunked Radio.
TETRA can be used anywhere in the world since it does not work on a specified / limited frequency band, it can be adapted to any band there is - given you find a manufacturer to support this.
Most common bands are 380-400MHz (usually reserved for PSS), 410-430MHz (commercial) and 806-869 (commercial), but at least one TETRA network for the 300MHz band has been delivered (to Russia).

For TETRA, Motorola's Dimetra system is getting more and more popular. They will be using it for the 2004 Olympics in Athens.

Given their "agressive" marketing this is not surprising and while Motorola leads in number of systems (mostly small ones though) they can't match Nokia who can claim the highest number of equipment delivered and who can support truly large networks with nationwide functionality of all pretty much all features.
IMHO Motorola's system can't match that of Nokia in terms of performance and features and Motorola's system becomes awfully complex (high amount of hardware needed) when the system grows, affecting the operation and management of the same.
As well I do question the reliability and security of the Motorola DimetraIP network where IP networks (LAN, WAN) are used to transfer the calls.

 

[N_Jay]

TETRA was initially intended for the European market only, then called Trans-European Trunked Radio. However later it was marketed outside of Europe also and hence renamed into Terrestial Trunked Radio.
TETRA can be used anywhere in the world since it does not work on a specified / limited frequency band, it can be adapted to any band there is - given you find a manufacturer to support this.
Most common bands are 380-400MHz (usually reserved for PSS), 410-430MHz (commercial) and 806-869 (commercial), but at least one TETRA network for the 300MHz band has been delivered (to Russia).

TETRA can not be used in the US, as Motorola had already patented some of the technology before the TETRA guys "Came up with it".

Motorola licensed it to the TETRA gang for use outside the US.

 

[Raccon]

TETRA can not be used in the US, as Motorola had already patented some of the technology before the TETRA guys "Came up with it".

Motorola licensed it to the TETRA gang for use outside the US.

Motorola are part of 'the TETRA gang' so I wouldn't see why they (or anyone else) could not market it in the US, in particular since Motorola has licensed it.

Anyhow, my response was to be seen from a technical perspective, not from whatever restrictions certain countries (or legal issues) may apply.

 

[N_Jay]

TETRA can not be used in the US, as Motorola had already patented some of the technology before the TETRA guys "Came up with it".

Motorola licensed it to the TETRA gang for use outside the US.

Motorola are part of 'the TETRA gang' so I wouldn't see why they (or anyone else) could not market it in the US, in particular since Motorola has licensed it.

Anyhow, my response was to be seen from a technical perspective, not from whatever restrictions certain countries (or legal issues) may apply.

Yep, its a legal/licensing/marketing issue, not specifically a technical issue.

 

[EMS12]

Hi

TETRA is a digital radio system which is encrypted by default.

There are no scanners available for monitoring TETRA and because of the encryption I am 99.99% sure there ever will be.

Sorry

Ian

Don't be to sure. Other countries may not have the same laws the US has on encryption. So TETRA systems over seas maybe be able to be monitored :wink:

If your strickly speaking of US then yes we will never be able to legally monitor encrypted transmissions as long as the current laws stay the same.

 

[N_Jay]

Hi

TETRA is a digital radio system which is encrypted by default.

There are no scanners available for monitoring TETRA and because of the encryption I am 99.99% sure there ever will be.

Sorry

Ian

Don't be to sure. Other countries may not have the same laws the US has on encryption. So TETRA systems over seas maybe be able to be monitored :wink:

If your strickly speaking of US then yes we will never be able to legally monitor encrypted transmissions as long as the current laws stay the same.

Tetra is a cellular like system. so even if you had a scanner that could technically listen to it, the comsumer experiance would be very poor.

No one is going to build a product with these limitations.