• Effective immediately we will be deleting, without notice, any negative threads or posts that deal with the use of encryption and streaming of scanner audio.

    We've noticed a huge increase in rants and negative posts that revolve around agencies going to encryption due to the broadcasting of scanner audio on the internet. It's now worn out and continues to be the same recycled rants. These rants hijack the threads and derail the conversation. They no longer have a place anywhere on this forum other than in the designated threads in the Rants forum in the Tavern.

    If you violate these guidelines your post will be deleted without notice and an infraction will be issued. We are not against discussion of this issue. You just need to do it in the right place. For example:
    https://forums.radioreference.com/rants/224104-official-thread-live-audio-feeds-scanners-wait-encryption.html

The future of scanning in SoCal?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
Jul 6, 2005
Messages
219
Location
Winnetka, CA
#1
Will the LASD and LACoFD only be on L.A.-R.I.C.S in the future? If so, does anyone have a guess as to when that might happen?

Any plans for an LAFD/LAPD TRS?

Is there a timetable for the P25 OCFA system?

Any talk any of agencies in SoCal going to P25 Phase 2, DMR or ProVoice? What about encryption? I know the OCFA is kicking that idea around.

I'm starting to save my pennies for a new scanner and just need some idea of a timetable...

Thanks.
 

allend

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Feb 1, 2012
Messages
1,088
Location
Long Beach, CA
#2
As to LA-RICS I really don' know exactly what cities within LA County are going to join. As we know today LASO and LACOFD will join. Most likely the full build-out will be within a couple of years or so.

As you can see in the database for LA-RICS alot of talkgroups have already been noted and are being tested. .

As for LAPD they have a solid P25 Conventional system that works and is stable so not sure if they will move to any TRS in the near future. LAFD is still on their analog 800 mhz conventional system that is stable and solid too. So I think both LAPD and LAFD will just stay on their own systems for at least another 5 years most likely or so. Just to hard to say.

As to Phase II the only agency that is TDMA is LA-RICS for now. Not sure if OC will go Phase II TDMA in a couple of years or move to Phase I FDMA and then migrate as time passes. Alot of unknowns.

I can't see any agencies going DMR in Socal. It pretty much locked up with Motorola Products. And ProVoice is an old technology and will not be rolled out moving forward in an agency nationwide. That ship has sailed. With regards to encryption nobody ever knows until the talkgroups go silent when its rolled out unless you work on the inside and you are the administrator and know a head of time.

Hopefully this info helps you decide on an radio. Your best bet is the Uniden BCD536HP radio or the BCD996P2. They both work great and VHF Low Band for CHP and do quite well on P25 Digital and will also do Phase II TDMA. Both have a great price point these days. Whistler radios do well on P25 and are spectacular but do quite poor on VHF Low Band for CHP
 

sshermanmd

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
May 10, 2007
Messages
1,470
Location
Cerritos, CA (LA County)
#3
I think it will be some time before most of the LAPD/LASD will be encrypted. I have been in the Cerritos/Artesia Rotary Club for 20 years (president in 2004) and we have an annual dinner to honor the local sheriffs and firefighters (LA County Sheriff and Fire). I have heard from many of these safety officers (mostly the sheriffs) that encryption will be around the corner, but that began about 8 years ago. Has not happened yet in any big way yet.
However, I am monitoring LA-RICS tonight because the LASD is using some of the digital trunking channels for the Rose Parade and setting up barricades. Lots of activity since about 4 PM (12 hours ago). But that system does not sound anywhere near (IMHO) likes its ready for prime time. I suspect analog for LA Co Fire is here yet for a long time, and as Allend states in the above post, the LAPD digital system in the 484 Mhz and 506 Mhz regions is pretty solid.
My recommendation: Go out and buy yourself a good digital trunking scanner and enjoy life. No one can predict the future years down the road, and there will always be interesting stuff to monitor. I agree with Allend that the BCD-536HP or BCD-996P2 are good choices.
I have probably owned at one time or another 40 different scanner models since the RS PRO-2020 and BC100XLT (which I still sometimes use). These include all the scanners made by Uniden and GRE/RS/Whistler in the last 10 years.
There is a lot of DMR around Los Angeles waiting to be explored. You definitely want a scanner that can be upgraded to DMR. The Uniden 436HP and 536HP are hands down the best portable and base scanners I have ever owned. The 996P2 is good, but for another $100 or so, you really get a whole lot more with the 536HP. You can read the details on multiple threads here on Radio Reference.
Regards and Happy New Year
 
Joined
Jul 6, 2005
Messages
219
Location
Winnetka, CA
#4
Hi guys,

Thanks so much. It doesn't sound like there are any major changes for the next year or two at least.

Though they are old, my Pro-96 does a good job with LAPD and Verdugo Fire, once I got the extended tables set in Win 96. For everything else, my Pro-162 works well, especially for OCFA and mil air.

My big concern was LA-RICS which, from RR posts, sounds like it is coming more and more online all of the time. It's good to know LASD and LACoFd won't be migrating there anytime too soon.

I'm going to start saving my pennies and probably go with one of the new Unidens, as you both suggested.

Thanks and 73,

-Larry (KG6EJT)
 

ko6jw_2

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
May 18, 2008
Messages
683
Location
Santa Ynez, CA
#5
Supposedly when LAFD moved to 800 Mhz they received an exemption from the FCC from having to have a trunked system (more than five frequencies required trunking). I think that they recognized that their radio system would not benefit from trunking and wisely opted out.

Anybody remember listening to LAFD on 33.70 Mhz?
 

ladn

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Oct 25, 2008
Messages
278
Location
Southern California
#6
I (fondly) remember the old days of listening to "Coldwater" amd "Westlake" on 33.82, 33.70, 33.60, etc. in the time before dispatch was called OCD (and now Metro).

These were the days of manual dispatch. No CAD systems. The dispatchers of that era were very proficient and could frequently dispatch resources from memory.

Incident first responses were a lot different than today as well, but that's best left to another thread.
 

allend

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Feb 1, 2012
Messages
1,088
Location
Long Beach, CA
#7
There was and is a reason why 40 years ago + VHF Lowband was used. VHF Lowband will give you distance and superior quality and dependability.

Orange County Fire Authority use to run on 46.14 MHz back in the 1970's and prior. Boy how things change for the better and worse.
 

ko6jw_2

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
May 18, 2008
Messages
683
Location
Santa Ynez, CA
#8
A bit of low band and LAFD trivia. In the late 1970's I toured the fire boat station in Seattle. SFD had moved to UHF, but they still had a low band frequency of 33.70 Mhz. In the wheel house of the fire boat I noticed the low band radio and commented to the captain that that was a frequency used by the LAFD. He said, "I know, I talk to them sometimes." No PL in those days.
 
Joined
Jul 6, 2005
Messages
219
Location
Winnetka, CA
#9
A bit of low band and LAFD trivia. In the late 1970's I toured the fire boat station in Seattle. SFD had moved to UHF, but they still had a low band frequency of 33.70 Mhz. In the wheel house of the fire boat I noticed the low band radio and commented to the captain that that was a frequency used by the LAFD. He said, "I know, I talk to them sometimes." No PL in those days.
Right, I remember quite often in the fall hearing an FD in Ohio coming through on the old LAFD Ch 8 (33.820).
 

PaulNDaOC

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Mar 8, 2009
Messages
484
Location
Orange County,Ca
#10
There was and is a reason why 40 years ago + VHF Lowband was used. VHF Lowband will give you distance and superior quality and dependability.

Orange County Fire Authority use to run on 46.14 MHz back in the 1970's and prior. Boy how things change for the better and worse.
Yes that was the best of times for local monitoring. It was fun trying to memorize selective call tones used by OCFD/ CalFire dispatch. Once you learned them you could tune the rest out, and all call remarks were voiced so you were in the know.
 

PaulNDaOC

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Mar 8, 2009
Messages
484
Location
Orange County,Ca
#11
A bit of low band and LAFD trivia. In the late 1970's I toured the fire boat station in Seattle. SFD had moved to UHF, but they still had a low band frequency of 33.70 Mhz. In the wheel house of the fire boat I noticed the low band radio and commented to the captain that that was a frequency used by the LAFD. He said, "I know, I talk to them sometimes." No PL in those days.
That skip traffic was the best during high sunspot activity. LASD radio cars had PL tone switches so they could select to tune out the massive waves of east coast radio traffic that would be heard at night.

I remember being on a mobile antenna driving on the 42.12/42.20 CHP Freq for Springs/East La and hearing
Oakland dispatch and their units on the imput full quieting 400 miles away.
 

Anderegg

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Mar 7, 2010
Messages
1,521
Location
San Diego
#12
I can sometimes hear the CHP Orange out of Baldwin Park better in San Diego, than I can hear the Tan, which is located in San Diego. :-D

It's only a matter of a few decades before IP based PTT may reach "the scanner singularity" for us...at least we don't have to deal with a Tetra option!

Paul
 

allend

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Feb 1, 2012
Messages
1,088
Location
Long Beach, CA
#14
I can sometimes hear the CHP Orange out of Baldwin Park better in San Diego, than I can hear the Tan, which is located in San Diego. :-D

It's only a matter of a few decades before IP based PTT may reach "the scanner singularity" for us...at least we don't have to deal with a Tetra option!

Paul
CHP is an odd system to try and follow and tune in. Low Band is really tricky if you do not live near one of their repeaters.

I have two disconne antennas that are about 10 to 15 feet apart. One is in my attic and the other is outside high in the sky at least 30 feet off the ground.

The one in the attic can receive the San Juan Cap Green with no issues. The one high in the sky can't receive the San Juan Cap Green channel at all. And its running a 100 feet of 50 omh LMR low lose cable too. Sometimes you have to really scratch your head because it just does not make any sense.
 

ko6jw_2

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
May 18, 2008
Messages
683
Location
Santa Ynez, CA
#15
Discones for low band are problematical at best. They really are not discones - just base loaded ground planes of a sort. The trick to receiving CHP is to put a longer whip on the loading coil. My Diamond tunes up at 42.5Mhz with a 48 inch whip. CHP does not run the power that they used to either. I used to live on a hill and had a real full size ground plane for low band. From Santa Barbara I could hear San Diego, San Bernardino, Riverside, Ventura, San Luis Obispo and El Centro. This was in the late '60's. Many CHP offices used the Blue channel in those days. Santa Barbara and San Diego were on the Green.
 

sshermanmd

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
May 10, 2007
Messages
1,470
Location
Cerritos, CA (LA County)
#16
I sometimes use my Cushcraft R8 vertical up at 35 feet (40 thru 6 meters) to listen to distant CHP. I have to put an AM broadcast filter in to eliminate overload from KFI 640 Khz antenna through my scanners, which is probably 3 miles from my house with +4 dBM signal on my Perseus SDR.
With that and running the CHP on NFM on my 536HP, regularly hear Indio, Ventura, Temecula, Oceanside, San Diego, and sometimes El Cajon CHP. On a few occasions have heard Santa Barbara, and on a couple of evenings, El Centro. SJC, and Inland Empire CHP always loud. Best low VHF antenna I have if use a broadcast AM filter.
 

allend

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Feb 1, 2012
Messages
1,088
Location
Long Beach, CA
#17
I sometimes use my Cushcraft R8 vertical up at 35 feet (40 thru 6 meters) to listen to distant CHP. I have to put an AM broadcast filter in to eliminate overload from KFI 640 Khz antenna through my scanners, which is probably 3 miles from my house with +4 dBM signal on my Perseus SDR.
With that and running the CHP on NFM on my 536HP, regularly hear Indio, Ventura, Temecula, Oceanside, San Diego, and sometimes El Cajon CHP. On a few occasions have heard Santa Barbara, and on a couple of evenings, El Centro. SJC, and Inland Empire CHP always loud. Best low VHF antenna I have if use a broadcast AM filter.
Thanks for all of the input. It sure is a science to pick some of the CHP frequencies. I looked up the Cushcraft R8 vertical and they have the R9 now. It sure is a huge vertical antenna which is not feasible to setup this kind of antenna in any old community. I guess I can see why you can pickup long distance with the whip on that antenna.

Would you know of any other antenna that would work besides a Diamond D130J Disconne that would cover all of the bands?
 

sshermanmd

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
May 10, 2007
Messages
1,470
Location
Cerritos, CA (LA County)
#19
I have used a variety of antennas over the years including the D130J, which is a good discone antenna. However, I have never found anything as good as the R8 vertical with an AM filter in line for low VHF CHP.
I don't monitor the CHP that often. For high VHF and UHF, I just use my 2 meter/440 Mhz dual band VHF antenna up at 30 feet. Works pretty well. For 800 Mhz, I have a Terrawave Yagi (15 el) up at 30 feet for distant trunking sites. The 2 m/440 Mhz is fine for OC CCCS.
Best portable I find for CHP on my handhelds is the Radio Shack center-loaded telescopic antenna. fully extended. Also the best I have found for civil air is shorten by one segment and shorten out the coil. Never have found an antenna that is really optimal for 30 to 900 Mhz. I generally use an RH77CA and RS-800 for handhelds to cover high VHF up to 900 Mhz.
 

gman65

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jul 15, 2005
Messages
64
Location
Woodland Hills, CA
#20
Thanks for all of the input. It sure is a science to pick some of the CHP frequencies. I looked up the Cushcraft R8 vertical and they have the R9 now. It sure is a huge vertical antenna which is not feasible to setup this kind of antenna in any old community. I guess I can see why you can pickup long distance with the whip on that antenna.

Would you know of any other antenna that would work besides a Diamond D130J Disconne that would cover all of the bands?
I've had good success with the Diamond M685 series mobile antenna. It is a low, single band and is only $25. It works really well on the roof and I use it traveling from LA to Fresno regularly for CHP. The multiband offerings just don't cut it on the low end. I get CHP well everywhere with it.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top