The Grumpy Old Man Club

[Movieman990]

Thanks WA8ZTZ.....

Some of this is just human nature that can be found in any organization.

However, in Ham radio, the seeds for much of this was planted long ago with the so-called "incentive licensing" with all of the various license class. Some how or other attaining your own exclusive slice of HF spectrum became the quest of Ham radio. What really resulted was an attitude that somehow you weren't a real Ham if you possessed a "lower" class license.

So, tired of hearing (not so much on this forum but elsewhere) "I have 50 years experience....". Which implies a license class that required a code test probably in front of an federal examiner. My question... Is that really 50 years experience or rather one year fifty times? None of us are so smart that we know everything. There is always something new to learn if you have an inquiring mind.

IMHO, there should be only one class of Ham ticket and let water seek its own level.

Thanks for your comments...your perspective from an historical point of view is a very good observation and contribution.

 

[WA8ZTZ]

Thanks for your comments...your perspective from an historical point of view is a very good observation and contribution.

Thanks, more could be said but my thoughts and opinion aren't going to change anything. The hobby is what it is. The keyword is "hobby". This is supposed to be fun. If some group, organization, repeater, activity, etc. is unappealing then it is time to move on down the line.

 

[Otto]

 

[k6cpo]

Offhand, I would think that if the CCRs are used properly they shouldn't come under scrutiny, but I know there is a lot I don't know. I know I will use them properly but I'm sure there are some who won't. Somehow they will get around what is legal and use them incorrectly.

Is it a matter of these little radios being capable of operating in frequencies where they are not allowed?

Is it a matter of bad engineering that they might interrupt other's communications?

I have to admit I haven't explored the bad aspects of the Baofengs, etc as I can't imagine myself using them improperly, but if there is something inherently harmful built into them, maybe you guys can make it simple for me to understand here.

Finally, since the ccrs have been around for something like 5 years and the FCC is now starting to challenge them a bit, maybe something should be done about the process of vetting manufacturers more than is being done now.

Thanks for any answers.

I think a lot of it has to do with the fact the radios are made in China. I have a couple of Part 90 certified Wouxuns, also made in China, and people feel the same way about them. Let me give you an example.

When the FCC mandated narrow-banding took place in the Land Mobile Radio Service several years ago, a railroad museum where I volunteer purchased several Wouxun Part 90 radios for the train crew to meet the mandate. The crew members ridiculed the choice and promptly proceeded to destroy the radios, not intentionally, but through lack of respect for the museum's property. When someone donated several compliant Motorola radios, the situation changed and as far as I know, the Motorolas are being treated better. (I quit train crew a while back.)

I think Lauri CF has already found the word that sums them/us adequately - "curmudgeons".

"An ill-tempered (and frequently old) person full of stubborn ideas or opinions."

....but see.....

https://www.wikihow.com/Become-a-Curmudgeon

This describes a group that has come to monopolize one of the local repeaters. They come on every morning with what I call the "Curmudgeon Net" and what one of my friends calls the "Double Net" because they step all over each other. They've come to view this particular repeater as their own. When one of the public service organizations here requested and was granted permission to use the repeater for an event, the usual suspects got all bent out of shape that this group was on "their" repeater.

 

[Lauri-CoyoteFrostbite]

.
I was going thru some files and was charmed by this story of my 'alter ego'...
It should put some Grumpy Old Men in their places...
.
_________________________________________________________

.
Gladys Kathleen Parkin (September 27, 1901 – August 3, 1990) was featured on the cover of the October 1916 issue of Electrical Experimenter. In an article titled "The Feminine Wireless Amateur," she was quoted as saying:
.

" .........With reference to my ideas about the wireless profession as a vocation or worthwhile hobby for women, I think wireless telegraphy is a most fascinating study, and one which could very easily be taken up by girls, as it is a great deal more interesting than the telephone and telegraph work, in which so many girls are now employed. I am only fifteen, and I learned the code several years ago, by practising a few minutes each day on a buzzer. I studied a good deal and I found it quite easy to obtain my first grade commercial government license, last April. It seems to me that every one should at least know the code, as cases might easily arise of a ship in distress, where the operators might be incapacitated, and a knowledge of the code might be the means of saving the ship and the lives of the passengers. But the interest in wireless does not end in the knowledge of the code. You can gradually learn to make all your own instruments, as I have done with my 1/4 kilowatt set. There is always more ahead of you, as wireless telegraphy is still in its infancy."
.
.
Parkin became interested in wireless telegraphy at age 5, and operated an amateur wireless station in her home in San Rafael for six years with her brother, John Parkin. Theirs was one of the first wireless stations in California.

On April 13, 1916, while a fifteen-year-old high school student at the Dominican College in San Rafael, she obtained a first-class commercial radio operator's license from the United States Government with the call sign 6SO. The license entitled her to operate any grade of wireless station and to secure employment on vessels. She was the youngest successful female applicant for a radio license ever examined by the Government at that time.

Prior to receiving her professional license, she held an amateur radio license for six years. She applied for the government license on a whim, just to see whether she could pass or not, and passed the examination with a high score. She was the third woman to successfully pass the examination for a first-class radio license, and the first woman in California **
.
.
.
Lauri
.
.
.
______________________________________________________________________________________________________
.
.
** Ehat, Carla; Parkin, Kathleen (1977). Oral History: Kathleen Parkin. Anne T. Kent California Room Oral History Project
.
**Miss Says She May Go to Sea With Brother, Who Is an Operator". San Francisco Chronicle. April 14, 1916
.

 

[ladn]

.

...Gladys Kathleen Parkin (September 27, 1901 – August 3, 1990) was featured on the cover of the October 1916 issue of Electrical Experimenter. In an article titled "The Feminine Wireless Amateur," she was quoted as saying:

On April 13, 1916, while a fifteen-year-old high school student at the Dominican College in San Rafael, she obtained a first-class commercial radio operator's license from the United States Government with the call sign 6SO. The license entitled her to operate any grade of wireless station and to secure employment on vessels. She was the youngest successful female applicant for a radio license ever examined by the Government at that time...
.

Lauri-I can't resist this. If Gladys helped others to become radio operators, would she be called a Perkin Elmer?

 

[Lauri-CoyoteFrostbite]

.
.
Smiles, Ladn
.
Very clever... ( tho it took me a moment... )
.
.
_____________________________________________________________
.
There were quite a few young women radio operators at the turn of the 19th century. I was going to place some more of their stories in here, but I fear that was taking things off topic... and be a tad too gynecentric ... (I don't want to set off any Grumpy Old Men.... )
.
I do wish I had a photo of my great aunt at her key as a Marcorni Girl... She too began as a teenager.. and I am told she was a Whiz at Morse. I have some of her informal logs and notebooks- filled with things like the settings for her rotary sparks and coherer receivers...
.
The truth be told,-- as she speaks to me across a century, its in a lost, forgotten tongue-
.
I haven't a clue how she adjust'd those things !
.
.
Lauri
.
.
_______________________________________________
that's her below, ca. early 1900's..........
.
.

 

[Movieman990]

Charming then and now....

But as charming as they were "back in THEIR day"...I bet they got more than their share of criticism from the "grumpy old men" of the day. I can just imagine....."Those upstarts ! What do they think they're doing!"

 

[KR7CQ]

Many Hams forget that ham radio is only a hobby, and they take themselves way too seriously. The clique mentality in the Phoenix area is strong. As a result, repeaters mostly sit silent, and most newbies who throw out their call get silence. Then they try simplex with the mag-mount antenna they stick on top of their refrigerator and attach to their CCR, and find life on of all places (horror / shock), the VHF "calling frequency". They then begin talking to "bad hams" who rag chew on that frequency, and then they get scolded by "those who uphold the honor and dignity and proper etiquette of ham radio" for daring to talk on the calling frequency. Then many buy their first HF rig and string some wire up and find other things out there. Although some of the worst whack jobs reside on HF, so do some of the nicer hams, so there can be a light at the end of the tunnel.

 

[Lauri-CoyoteFrostbite]

.
Way too seriously is a good way to put it.
.
But there is no premium or time scale on radio jerks... it goes back to the very beginning.
.
.
My Aunt's logs don't say it in so many word, but beside certain names (all male, btw) there are the letters "DJ"- it took me awhile to find a copy of their informal codes used between female operators- but a "DJ" was quite easy to decipher without it.
Take a guess ...
.
My father was a "Conditional" class as a teenager.... that was one of those licenses you qualified for if you lived a long distance from an FCC testing location. He was military and Okinawa certainly was far enuff away.
When he returned to the States, he quickly learned what a second class ham the Grumps relegated him too.
.
"...... that's one of those mail order licenses, Kid. Talk to us when you become a real ham..."
"...How many cereral box tops did THAT ticket take !? ......"
"... get off the band; no LIDS, kids, or space cadets here......"
.
(I'll bet there are some old Tech Class's out there that can relate to this.)
.
.
Anyway, people, you get the picture.
.
.
My first license was as a "G" in the UK.... the Brits were very kind to a young woman- and I had not a single issue in all my years there.
But when I return'd to the US, it was a whole different story. In those days, your US callsign was like a birthdate--you could tell really well just how long someone had been licensed- your prefix gave you away.
And being a young woman and daring to operate 'phone was like throwing chum into a sea full of sharks.
Somethings I'll never forget- or forgive. I'll just summarize it with "75 metre's"... I never venture - (well, hardly)- to this day above 3750.
.

Hey, I just realized something- I sound just like a curmudgeon !.... pretty neat, No ??
.
.
Lauri
.

.

 

[K8EAA]

GOM club

Your going to find these people in almost every hobby. One of the worst I ran into was the model plane
hobby. Man those people were the worst. The old timers always hogged the field. Some of the worst things
I saw was when one of them tossed a rag up in front of a junior members plane and made it crash.

The best one I was ever in was a classic car club. Really nice group and very helpful.

I don't care what your call sign prefix is, I will always acknowledge your call.
I'm 70 yrs old and in the hobby for 50 yrs and I'm not grumpy

 

[TheSpaceMann]

I think a lot of it has to do with the fact the radios are made in China. I have a couple of Part 90 certified Wouxuns, also made in China, and people feel the same way about them. Let me give you an example.

When the FCC mandated narrow-banding took place in the Land Mobile Radio Service several years ago, a railroad museum where I volunteer purchased several Wouxun Part 90 radios for the train crew to meet the mandate. The crew members ridiculed the choice and promptly proceeded to destroy the radios, not intentionally, but through lack of respect for the museum's property. When someone donated several compliant Motorola radios, the situation changed and as far as I know, the Motorolas are being treated better. (I quit train crew a while back.)





This describes a group that has come to monopolize one of the local repeaters. They come on every morning with what I call the "Curmudgeon Net" and what one of my friends calls the "Double Net" because they step all over each other. They've come to view this particular repeater as their own. When one of the public service organizations here requested and was granted permission to use the repeater for an event, the usual suspects got all bent out of shape that this group was on "their" repeater.

Is THIS the repeater? I have heard very similar things on it! https://www.broadcastify.com/listen/feed/14747

 

[k6cpo]

Many Hams forget that ham radio is only a hobby, and they take themselves way too seriously. The clique mentality in the Phoenix area is strong. As a result, repeaters mostly sit silent, and most newbies who throw out their call get silence. Then they try simplex with the mag-mount antenna they stick on top of their refrigerator and attach to their CCR, and find life on of all places (horror / shock), the VHF "calling frequency". They then begin talking to "bad hams" who rag chew on that frequency, and then they get scolded by "those who uphold the honor and dignity and proper etiquette of ham radio" for daring to talk on the calling frequency. Then many buy their first HF rig and string some wire up and find other things out there. Although some of the worst whack jobs reside on HF, so do some of the nicer hams, so there can be a light at the end of the tunnel.

One of the worst reactions I ever got was at a hamfest in Arizona. I'm the Public Information Coordinator for the San Diego Section of the ARRL and I went up to one of the local league officials to introduce myself and said "greetings from California..." No sooner were the words out of my mouth than I got "I don't want anything to do with California" or words to that effect. This person was the Arizona Section Manager. I just turned and walked away and subsequently reported the encounter to my SM.

A year or so later, he was out of office and I had a totally different encounter with his successor at a different hamfest. It was very pleasant and he asked many questions about my job as PIC.

Is THIS the repeater? I have heard very similar things on it! https://www.broadcastify.com/listen/feed/14747

Nope. The local repeater is very tame compared to that one.

 

[KR7CQ]

One of the worst reactions I ever got was at a hamfest in Arizona. I'm the Public Information Coordinator for the San Diego Section of the ARRL and I went up to one of the local league officials to introduce myself and said "greetings from California..." No sooner were the words out of my mouth than I got "I don't want anything to do with California" or words to that effect. This person was the Arizona Section Manager. I just turned and walked away and subsequently reported the encounter to my SM.

A year or so later, he was out of office and I had a totally different encounter with his successor at a different hamfest. It was very pleasant and he asked many questions about my job as PIC.

Many hear greatly resent the "Californication" of AZ, but what that person did was rude as hell. People shouldn't be judged out of hand because of the state the came from. Reagan came from California as I recall. There are definitely some very rude hams here, and some of the coolest people that I've met in AZ are hams as well.

 

[Lauri-CoyoteFrostbite]

.
.
Lauri ------------------------>> Native Californian (Cal Tech, UC Berkeley)
.
Though I **Hardly !!** subscribe to their politics, nor can stomach what is ruining my beautiful State today.

.
.
.

 

[olderookie]

Too many

I had thread on here of the exact same topic.

I was interested in joining a local club but after they brow beat a young man at the age of 16 I refused to even talk on "their" repeater. The young man almost quit the hobby. I called him and told him to not let the crabby old hams get to him. I further explained that if I caught anyone being rude to him I would fall back to military training and explain to them as a drill Sgt. Had explained to me. Basically I told the young man that I can be a bit more crabby and will gather their attention and set them on the right path.

I was invited to join a club that did not have dues and is open to many topics within the hobby. I have volunteered my time with repairs and thrown money in the hat for things.

I think my biggest issue is that these are the guys that keep the hobby from becoming more than what it is. "A bunch of mean crabby guys complaining about there bad health".

Had I known about this hobby in my younger days I would have been very excited to join it. But there were no publication of the clubs or ways to gain information due to the toxic attitude of the people that are in the hobby. I can force the day we loose spectrum as the power that oversee the hobby feel we have not earned the right even if technically we have the permission.

I will stick to the lesser bands as I don't have to put up with criticism since I have not had my license for 40 years. I can do DMR and talk across the world reliably at anytime I want to.

And I like a lot of folks on here have used radio in the military or public safety for a number of years so there is that.

Just my 2 cents

Have a great day and enjoy your part of the hobby as you see fit

 

[w4amp]

Screaming at clouds is tight. LOL

 

[DJ11DLN]

As far as the "radio snobbery" thing (a la the CCR's) it isn't just on the Ham side, nor just CCR's. I have encountered people from many Departments who will absolutely sneer at our Kenwood radios because it's apparently handed down on high somewhere that if it ain't Motorola, it don't belong in Public Safety. The Kenwoods have returned excellent service for a fraction of what the Motos cost. Go figure.

 

[CQ]

As far as the "radio snobbery" thing (a la the CCR's) it isn't just on the Ham side, nor just CCR's. I have encountered people from many Departments who will absolutely sneer at our Kenwood radios because it's apparently handed down on high somewhere that if it ain't Motorola, it don't belong in Public Safety. The Kenwoods have returned excellent service for a fraction of what the Motos cost. Go figure.

It's quite annoying trying to listen to people on some CCRs...it's like someone talking through a plastic cup. I move on to something else and don't bother to join a conversation.

 

[KE0GXN]

As far as the "radio snobbery" thing (a la the CCR's) it isn't just on the Ham side, nor just CCR's. I have encountered people from many Departments who will absolutely sneer at our Kenwood radios because it's apparently handed down on high somewhere that if it ain't Motorola, it don't belong in Public Safety. The Kenwoods have returned excellent service for a fraction of what the Motos cost. Go figure.

Lol....Can’t say I have ever encountered that....must be a fire thing.

Most guys I work with could care less what the radio face says, as long as they can push the button and talk with it is all they care about.

With that said, I have seen LE agencies out there using Icoms and Kenwood.... I personally have never given it much thought. Now that I am a ham, I just find it intresting to see what departments issue their people. All I have ever been issued is Motorola at all the places I have worked.