tk2170, tk2180 comparison

[alottabull]

Our fire department is having to replace a few SP50's for the upcoming narrowband mandates. We currently have TK2170's with just a couple of Vertex's and a couple of ICOM's. Trucks are Motorola CM300's and M1225's. All TK2170's are running fleetsync pttid's, the 2 CM300's are running MDC1200. Members all came from SP50's originally. My first thought was to replace them with CP200XLS's since it seemed to be a logical replacement for the SP50, for just about the same money I can go with the TK2170. I know the CP200XLS is new but can anyone give a comparison of the two, RX and TX sensitivity maybe better on one or the other? Durability, water penetration specs maybe? I know folks have their preferences but I am more looking for spec's that prove these preferences. I also appreciate opinions on the subject. For instance the CP200XLS, TK2170 and TK2180 all seem to have the same operating temperature, are mil-std tested, etc.... Which brings me to what makes the TK2180 a "public safety" radio vs the TK2170 or the CP200XLS? I know it is advertised as such and the Moto is definitely advertised for business but if they have the same operating specs then what is the difference? I am sure I have to be missing something in the specs or the specs are vague enough for their to be large differences.

After that, how about the value in upgrading from the TK2170 to the TK2180? Both are rated for driven rain, operating temperatures seem the same, etc. What can be pointed out as making the TK2180 worth the upgrade? I started down this path when looking to go one step up from the CP200XLS and there really didn't appear to be one without spending at least double which made me think why am I not looking harder at Kenwood.

I think I have read just about every post here regarding these radios I have also read the spec sheets but I guess you can read those all day long and not get a good idea of a real world comparison regarding actual use. I see a lot of people like their TK2170's and really like their TK2180's but don't elaborate a whole lot on why. I previously had an HT1250 and liked it except the battery contact issues. I especially liked the menu system for modifying scan lists, choosing 2-tone systems to encode, etc. I now have the TK2170 and find myself missing that menu system, am I missing it or does it just not have one? Seems like a lot more options are available via a menu than just being limited to the number of programmable keys you have.

Also, what are the thoughts on the TK-2360 for a replacement for the SP-50? More active members are assigned a TK-2170 and those less active or that participate less in live fire type activities are issued a TK-2360... Seems like a logical replacement for the SP-50 for those members that don't participate much Much cheaper than getting them a pager, 16 channels, lightweight, etc... Should hold up as well as their SP-50's have for all these years...

 

[code3cowboy]

You are taking a very engineering based approach to the options you have available. I would first like to voice my vehement opposition to using a spiffy 50 for anything remotely considered public safety.

The 2180 supports more channels and features than the 2170, and has more options available that are geared toward public safety. The 2180 has completely different guts, and I feel is far more reliable and has better audio quality than the x170 series. The x180 lasts longer than the x170, and is more durable. The 2170 can be replaced for about $200 or repaired (at our billable rate) for about $200. I have seen at least 7 or 8 3170s come through only to go to a junk drawer as the department bought something better. The 2170 uses a 2 pin mic connector that corrodes which translates to not being able to program it.

Keeping in mind the x180 series is the top tier of Kenwood analog radios, the 2180 supports 512 channels, both fleetsync and MDC1200, has a better display, and can be cloned to 7180 mobiles. There are a wide range of accessories (most of which have no place in a fire department) but both radios offer you AA clamshells, shoulder mics, short and tall antennas, lithium, nickle metal hydride, and ni-cad batteries, rapid chargers, gang chargers, and mobile chargers.

Kenwood features a far easier scan list setup than Motorola. If you want a channel or group to be scanned, you switch over to it and push the add button. You can even have more than 16 channels in your list and/or in your groups. Kenwood also is far easier to program than motorolas.

There are not going to be menu systems with either of the kenwoods.

 

[alottabull]

Thanks, I understand about the SP-50 but they were around long before I got into the department. I want to go a step up from there but still don't want to waste money, we run few calls per year, don't have the number but it isn't many. The 2170's we have now support all the features we are currently interested in, MDC1200 would be nice but we already have fleetsync implemented on the Kenwoods anyway. This is the first I have heard of the corrosion and not being able to program the radio and it concerns me a bit. Regarding the 7 or 8 3170's going to the junk drawer what was "something better" and what did that "something better" actually do better?

 

[alottabull]

BTW, the other concern is our members are volunteer and have to have/wear these things 24/7, they don't want to be lugging around some huge XTS5000 and we don't have the liberty of letting members have both a radio and a pager. I was kind of leaning toward the 2170 because of this reason. The 2170's we have use the NiMH batteries and are quite heavy themselves but this time around we would go with the Li-ion.

 

[code3cowboy]

In your case you should look at the 2140. It is about the size of the 170 and is a far superior radio. 250 channels, the standard kenwood accessory connector, RF qualities that awe me every so often, and audio quality that rivals the Sabers. They are being fielded currently in one local county for the PCF (paid volunteer) firefighters.
The only downside of using them for firefighters is the radio wide setting of signaling option.

 

[jrw14493]

Having used both my 2180 and 2170 alongside a HT1250, I can tell you that I'd take a Kenwood product any day. Not having to use a box to program a radio is very nice. I also find Kenwood receivers to be much more sensitive and have the ability to receive more and better than Motorola.

You'll also find the price of a Kenwood radio vs a competing Motorola radio is substantially less. There is a local ambulance company and police department on 2170's. I've heard the PD loves them, not sure about the ambulance company.

2170 seems to be more entry level. Kenwood touts the 2180's ability to do MDC1200 and trunking as it's strong points. PTT ID's are neat but if you're using more than 1 type, I'd drop one and go to the other. 2170 has a more limited display, limited number of channels and limited features over the 2180. I will agree however that the 2180 seems to be more public safety-ish. Having a larger size and greater range of features makes me feel justified in saying so. It also has the option of adding in the sound recording board as well as other things by using the accessory jack on the side of the radio like a vibrator you can hook on there and tie it in with your two-tone decode and viola, you have a minitor pager the size of a portable radio. Which brings me to a strong point of the 2170; size and price of a minitor but having the ability to be a radio is a huge plus. Just program in the two-tone decode for paging and you're done.

All in all, if you don't need trunking and MDC1200 go with the 2170. More compact, more simpler and cheaper.

 

[jeffmarshall911]

Does the TK-2180 selector knob have stops, i.e. does it spin around completely like the TK-280 or does it stop at 1 and 16 like the TK-5210?

Blind (with gloves on) channel selection is a consideration for FD radios and the stops help.

/Jeff

 

[jrw14493]

Does the TK-2180 selector knob have stops, i.e. does it spin around completely like the TK-280 or does it stop at 1 and 16 like the TK-5210?

Blind (with gloves on) channel selection is a consideration for FD radios and the stops help.

/Jeff

Channel knobs on both the 2180 and 2170 spin completely around. I understand your issue but I also would hate to be limited to 16 channels in a bank like with the 5210, 5220 and Motorola radios.

However, through programming, you can enable a tone to sound once you've gone completely through the entire bank and are back at the beginning. I don't remember the exact name of the feature but it's worth enabling it if you'd like the stop feature.

 

[code3cowboy]

Channel knobs on both the 2180 and 2170 spin completely around. I understand your issue but I also would hate to be limited to 16 channels in a bank like with the 5210, 5220 and Motorola radios.

However, through programming, you can enable a tone to sound once you've gone completely through the entire bank and are back at the beginning. I don't remember the exact name of the feature but it's worth enabling it if you'd like the stop feature.

The 5210 does not limit you to 16 channels in a group. The feature you are thinking of is the rollover tone.

 

[jrw14493]

Rollover tone....that's it. I must have been thinking about the 5220. 5210 but a smaller package.