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TMJ 4 story on Milwaukee Open Sky

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OpSec

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Hmmm...surplus Micor base stations, perhaps? That could be fun...
 

cpd38

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Would someone care to explain how this is supposed to be so much better for inter op functions?

It seems to me the the republic of Milwaukee is once again putting itself out on an island.

If and when it ever gets up and running, all City of Milwaukee agencies will have the ability to talk together. That of course is the idea of the project. That could be done without having to spend millions on a new system built from scratch.

But how does that work for other police and fire agencies that work within Milwaukee County? Will there be some kind of talkgroup that other municipal departments be able to monitor or some kind of mutual aid channels that will be in use? On a major incident what will happen?

Since there already is an existing 800mhz trunked system that pretty much everyone else in the county already uses, why wouldn't they just allocate X amount of talkgroups to police and X amount to fire and X amount to who ever else needs them. The system is already in place, why not utilize what is already there and working? I can't see it costing a ton of money in comparison to building a new system from scratch.



All they push with the FEMA training is being able to have easier ways of intep op communications. Isn't this basically taking 3 steps backwards??
 
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1268

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The same issue on sending back radios happened to me in the southeast, the biggest issue I have seen with open sky is software based. Once we got that issue taken care of everything went OK. As far as interoperability the open sky system can have a patch into Ozaukees EDACS and Washington 's P-25 MACOM system and yes you can patch into a Motorola Astro and type 2 also thus giving you the interoperability you are speaking of.
Before I get hammered I know this because I have seen that same scenario set up and working, don't like non-scannable systems BUT Open Sky will work if set up correctly .
 

nslt204

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Being in an agency that will run mutual aid with Milwaukee I can tell you of all the meetings I have been at or told about from attendees. Milwaukee has no idea how they will talk to non-Milwaukee agencies even at this point.
They have options but are still trying to wrap their collective brains around how to do it.
There are a whole host of issues that this system brings up for them that they never considered when specing the system
1268 said:
The same issue on sending back radios happened to me in the southeast, the biggest issue I have seen with open sky is software based. Once we got that issue taken care of everything went OK. As far as interoperability the open sky system can have a patch into Ozaukees EDACS and Washington 's P-25 MACOM system and yes you can patch into a Motorola Astro and type 2 also thus giving you the interoperability you are speaking of.
Before I get hammered I know this because I have seen that same scenario set up and working, don't like non-scannable systems BUT Open Sky will work if set up correctly .
 

1268

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Scott, Ozaukee should be very easy since they run EDACS ... sounds like they maybe overthinking things.
 

SCPD

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Here are is a website that has info on Mobile and portables for Open sky. http://www.macom-wireless.com/products/opensky/default.asp
They can have options installed, via software from the factory, that will allow some models be programmed for P25 trunking and conventional, analog, EDACS analog and provoice.
If Milwaukee ordered these options their radios can be used on the Milwaukee county's P25 system when it is up and running and Ozaukee's EDACS system.
 

nslt204

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The City of Milwaukee has very little call to ever have inter op with Ozaukee Co.
The only case would be MPD with Mequon PD as they border directly. Even now and for many years they have not been able to talk directly.

The interop problems seem to be with the politicos and not the availability of hardware and software that will make the systems talk.
Lots of egos and it's my kingdom stuff going on. Down at my level of the street it's easy. Interop is walking up to the guy form the City and talking to him.
In a lot of cases the politico and bureaucrats make it harder than it really is.

That story was far from an "investigative report". It was a fluff piece. The reporter did not ask any difficult questions and had very little research to hit the Homeland Security guy form the City with.
In the Milwaukee news market if it isn't the Packers, Brewers, Bucks or the latest weather overraction the media is useless

1268 said:
Scott, Ozaukee should be very easy since they run EDACS ... sounds like they maybe overthinking things.
 

Tim

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Hiya All,

I second what Scott said about it being a fluff piece. Another problem is that they didn't talk to anyone directly involved in the project. The director of Homeland Security is not a city employee so I am not sure why they had him on (other than being involved with homeland security).

Having an alderman on there talking about the system is really kind of pointless, also. No disrespect intended towards them, but they aren't involved in the project either (Other than funding). At least he is a city employee, though.

It is true that Ozaukee County and City of Milwaukee will be able to interop with each other, however MFD hasn't really needed to talk to any Ozaukee county fire agency. In the small chance that MPD will need to interop with Ozaukee county Law enforcement agencies, they can use the I-Tac & I-Call frequencies.

"Barring any additional delays, Milwaukee's old radio system will be completely phased out by the end of the year. "

I know this might shock some, but there is NO WAY that the city of Milwaukee's old radio will be phased out by the end of the year. You are talking about countless portables and mobiles for every city department to be changed out. This is not even thinking about grid testing that still needs to be done, user training and software compatibility with CADS.

On the part about "having no problems with this vendor", why did MFD have to send back 500 portables because M/A(y) COMM (unicate) hadn't tested them correctly?


As much as I love scanning Milwaukee, I know that the it is better for the city to go to a Trunked Radio System (Even if it's an unscannable system). The thing I am worried about is that there are a number of OpenSky systems that are in the planning or building phase, but none of them are working fully. Plus MPD and MFD are using the OpenSky system for data right now and you wouldn't believe how many dead spots there are. I am worried about this system. Not so much from a listening standpoint, but from a public safety personnel standpoint.


Tim
 

wirr

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Re: the MFD portables, they went back because they were not the "intrinsically safe" models; don't believe it was a "testing" issue. (Are the portables they have now intrinsically safe??)

Re: OpenSky, check out the RR database for the Central Arizona Water Conservation District system; there are a number of sites and talkgroups listed; possibly a working system.
 

ctadam12

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WASTE OF MONEY AND TIME!! Milwaukee could have easily switched to the county system and every agency in the county would be on the same page... Stupid!!
 

wisradio

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ctadam12 said:
WASTE OF MONEY AND TIME!! Milwaukee could have easily switched to the county system and every agency in the county would be on the same page... Stupid!!
Ask around Dude. The "County System" can't support the users it has when "S" hits the fan. No way it can support the city of Milwaukee's traffic day to day.

PS: Let me know how rebanding goes for the "County System" .......WOW do you have a lot to look forword to......
OpenSky is done.....

PSS: Off post....Inter_op....the "City" can do "anything to anything"....the problem is policy & procedure.....
 

nslt204

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Nice.
I use the MCTRS near every day and rarely do we have an issue of availability and then it is seconds. Not sure what you mean.
Capacity could have been increased in the MCTRS and it was offered to Milwaukee, They refused. I should Say King.... Oh there I go again, Chief Arthur Jones refused.
Rebanding is rebanding, What do we have to look forward to? fill us in.

Open Sky id Done? Not according to the TMJ report, it's alive and well.

It's a LACK of Policy & Procedure & Swelled egos.

wisradio said:
Ask around Dude. The "County System" can't support the users it has when "S" hits the fan. No way it can support the city of Milwaukee's traffic day to day.

PS: Let me know how rebanding goes for the "County System" .......WOW do you have a lot to look forword to......
OpenSky is done.....

PSS: Off post....Inter_op....the "City" can do "anything to anything"....the problem is policy & procedure.....
 
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nslt204

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They still don't have them. This a bigger issue than the report lead the public to believe

wirr said:
Re: the MFD portables, they went back because they were not the "intrinsically safe" models; don't believe it was a "testing" issue. (Are the portables they have now intrinsically safe??)

Re: OpenSky, check out the RR database for the Central Arizona Water Conservation District system; there are a number of sites and talkgroups listed; possibly a working system.
 

wisradio

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haha

nslt204 said:
Nice.
I use the MCTRS near every day and rarely do we have an issue of availability and then it is seconds. Not sure what you mean.
Capacity could have been increased in the MCTRS and it was offered to Milwaukee, They refused. I should Say King.... Oh there I go again, Chief Arthur Jones refused.
Rebanding is rebanding, What do we have to look forward to? fill us in.

Open Sky id Done? Not according to the TMJ report, it's alive and well.

It's a LACK of Policy & Procedure & Swelled egos.
"Rarely"....... so it does happen......guess the chief wasn't lying...The city will more than double the traffic....what happens then??.....where are you going to get increased capacity? Do some surfing dude... they don't make it anymore...maybe you can get some nice used equipment....for the first responders......

It's a LACK of Policy & Procedure & Swelled egos.[/QUOTE]....you win


Open Sky id Done? Not according to the TMJ report, it's alive and well.....don't understand?TMJ knows something?? I just said they were rebanded...

Chief Arthur Jones refused.????.... You don't get to refuse the Feds....Even if your King....:)......duh......Well...I guess you can......cellphones are nice....:)
 

wisradio

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haha

nslt204 said:
Nice.
I use the MCTRS near every day and rarely do we have an issue of availability and then it is seconds. Not sure what you mean.
Capacity could have been increased in the MCTRS and it was offered to Milwaukee, They refused. I should Say King.... Oh there I go again, Chief Arthur Jones refused.
Rebanding is rebanding, What do we have to look forward to? fill us in.

Open Sky id Done? Not according to the TMJ report, it's alive and well.

It's a LACK of Policy & Procedure & Swelled egos.
"Rarely"....... so it does happen......guess the chief wasn't lying...The city will more than double the traffic....what happens then??.....where are you going to get increased capacity? Do some surfing dude... they don't make it anymore...maybe you can get some nice used equipment....for the first responders......

It's a LACK of Policy & Procedure & Swelled egos.[/QUOTE]....you win


Open Sky id Done? Not according to the TMJ report, it's alive and well.....don't understand?TMJ knows something?? I just said they were rebanded...

Chief Arthur Jones refused.????.... You don't get to refuse the Feds....Even if your King....:)......duh......Well...I guess you can......cellphones are nice....:)
 

nslt204

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What are you talking about?
System busy happens all time on trunked radio systems, not just the MCTRS. Have you ever used a TRS?
If it is busy you get a busy tone and the call is stacked for the next open freq by priority rate of the user. Within micro seconds most times you have the standard chirp and you can talk.
TRS radios are set by priority so PD and Fire bump DPW, Co Transit, Dog catcher and who ever else was given a radio.
My guess is the lower priority users get more busy tones than public safety, but so is life.

If you would read the post I said the offer was made to Milwaukee to come into the County System. Part of that offer was Milwaukee would pay for the increased capacity. That means a couple of new master controllers (the county needs them anyway) as well as adding frequencies to the system and a couple of tower sites. All are possible with out a lot of work. Not near as much as building a new system.
Moto still makes compatible parts, controllers, radios what ever you need for the county system. It is upgradeable to P25, something that is being tested now.
So it would double the traffic, then you double the system capacity with a margin. Not too difficult to figure out.
I don't know where you came up with they don't make it anymore but my agency just got a bunch of brand new XTS 5000 HTs and mobiles, the model escapes me right now. They are definitely not used. Not sure where you "surfed" that one up.
Who was rebanded? TMJ 4, City of Milwaukee or Milwaukee Co. You said Opensky was done. Done and over or done as in operation?
The vendor you pick has nothing to do with the Feds. Educate yourself a little. He ,Jones, and a couple of others RFPed the system before they got the money. The Feds don't specify the vendor or system. It only says that any radios or radios system bought with Federal money must be P25 compatible period. You don't even have to use it in P25 mode.
You don't turn down the Feds? Who do you think they operate like the 1960's Mob? Franklin turned down the Fed's for money they asked for. Franklin is still on the map.

Have I said this before? I love un-signed posts!

Troll away!



wisradio said:
"Rarely"....... so it does happen......guess the chief wasn't lying...The city will more than double the traffic....what happens then??.....where are you going to get increased capacity? Do some surfing dude... they don't make it anymore...maybe you can get some nice used equipment....for the first responders......

It's a LACK of Policy & Procedure & Swelled egos.
....you win


Open Sky id Done? Not according to the TMJ report, it's alive and well.....don't understand?TMJ knows something?? I just said they were rebanded...

Chief Arthur Jones refused.????.... You don't get to refuse the Feds....Even if your King....:)......duh......Well...I guess you can......cellphones are nice....:)[/QUOTE]
 

mkescan

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wisradio Chief Arthur Jones refused.????.... You don't get to refuse the Feds....Even if your King....:-) [/QUOTE said:
I don't think Sheriff Clarke had a reason to lie a couple years ago on Milwaukee talk radio when he said Artie Jones turned down his offer to join Milwaukee County TRS
 
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