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Transition to Phase 2 Any Time Soon?

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davidjacobs2012

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#1
Hello everyone. Does anyone know when the transition to Phase 2 on MARCS-IP will be? I'm more concerned about the southwestern counties. But any answer for any county is welcome, of course. Thanks!

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#3
It will be awhile. I'd say anywhere from 5-10 years out.


I'd say it will be way longer than that. 15-20 years. Hamilton County & Cincinnati just went onto MARCS earlier this year. It cost around $20M each as I understand it. Everyone is replacing XTS5000s with APX radios as fast as they can. That's no small undertaking for radios that are $4500/ea.

It will be a very long time before SW OH sees type II.
 
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#4
I'd say it will be way longer than that. 15-20 years. Hamilton County & Cincinnati just went onto MARCS earlier this year. It cost around $20M each as I understand it. Everyone is replacing XTS5000s with APX radios as fast as they can. That's no small undertaking for radios that are $4500/ea.

It will be a very long time before SW OH sees type II.
Yeah you are probably right. I was mentioning what I had heard for the Columbus area but who knows if that is even true.
 

davidjacobs2012

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#5
I don't know why, but I swore I came across a post saying that the transition would happen a lot sooner.. like maybe within a year or two. I couldn't find that post so that's why I asked

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#6
The first system was right at the 15 year mark, when it and all parts were EOL'ed. The same for XTS5000s, since their parts manufacturing stops in July of 17.
 

Nasby

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I don't know why, but I swore I came across a post saying that the transition would happen a lot sooner.. like maybe within a year or two. I couldn't find that post so that's why I asked

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No way in hell is it even within even 5 years. It is many, many years away (if ever).

Don't let Phase 2 infuence your buying decision for a scanner to be used in Ohio.

I've heard some folks say, "Get a phase 2 scanner just to be ready."

That's just wasting alot of money. By the time we see Phase 2 in Ohio, the scanner market will look vastly different.
 
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#8
No way in hell is it even within even 5 years. It is many, many years away (if ever).



Don't let Phase 2 infuence your buying decision for a scanner to be used in Ohio.



I've heard some folks say, "Get a phase 2 scanner just to be ready."



That's just wasting alot of money. By the time we see Phase 2 in Ohio, the scanner market will look vastly different.


Agree, very much so.

Not anytime soon. Just as a guess, I may be close to retirement age before the next system comes online.
 
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#9
No way in hell is it even within even 5 years. It is many, many years away (if ever).

Don't let Phase 2 infuence your buying decision for a scanner to be used in Ohio.

I've heard some folks say, "Get a phase 2 scanner just to be ready."

That's just wasting alot of money. By the time we see Phase 2 in Ohio, the scanner market will look vastly different.
If a person wanted to listen to the agencies on the Ottawa,Medina,Cuyahoga county system.

They would need a phase 2 scanner now as that system is currently using phase 2.
 

Nasby

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#10
If a person wanted to listen to the agencies on the Ottawa,Medina,Cuyahoga county system.

They would need a phase 2 scanner now as that system is currently using phase 2.
Sorry. No they are not.

The database is incorrect. I monitor that system daily with a PRO-106 and I work in the field.

It is simply an incorrect notation in the database. The system is Phase I with Phase II capability.

They had a similar error in the database before when the Summit Co. APCO 25 system was incorrectly labeled as Phase II. It has since been corrected.
 
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#11
Don't let Phase 2 infuence your buying decision for a scanner to be used in Ohio.
With strong emphasis on to be used in Ohio and I'd probably add if MARCS-IP is your only consideration as far as digital trunked systems goes.

There are plenty of Phase 2 systems out there and if there's a chance you'll ever travel or move to one of those areas then the calculus gets more interesting. I'm fortunate that the extra bucks are almost meaningless to me. I travel to Phase 2 areas several times a year so buying P2 was a no brainer when I was due for an upgrade. But if I was on a fixed income, not looking to move and either rarely/never traveled or didn't care to have a scanner with me when I did then I'd probably do without.
 

davidjacobs2012

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#12
I already have the BCD436HP. And I have been to a couple other counties outside Ohio where they have phase 2. I didn't expect Ohio to transition so soon. I just wanted to see how soon. I'm not anxious. I'm hearing everything for the most part pretty well.

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budevans

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#13
I don't know why, but I swore I came across a post saying that the transition would happen a lot sooner.. like maybe within a year or two. I couldn't find that post so that's why I asked

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I believe what you saw was a posting about the next round of upgrades. They were originally planned for 2018 and the last I heard have been pushed back to 2019.

Those upgrades in some cases are firmware upgrades to existing equipment. In other cases new hardware. But all will be TDMA (Phase II) capable.

As others have pointed out, that doesn't mean that everyone will be switching to TDMA.
 
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#14
My guess is that most of MARCS won't switch. The current system works fine and there aren't capacity issues. This will be way in the future for Phase II in Ohio.
 

budevans

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Don't know when, but it's coming

My guess is that most of MARCS won't switch. The current system works fine and there aren't capacity issues. This will be way in the future for Phase II in Ohio.
So far I haven't seen a date from the FCC to enforce the 6.25 (equivalent) mandate. However, the original narrow banding mandate (for 12.5), spells out that the next requirement will be 6.25 (or two channel 12.5).

Note: I believe the original date for the 12.5 requirement was 2008. That date was moved out to 2013.

Unless the FCC reverses it's decision, the transition to 6.25 (equivalent) is coming.
 
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#17
Maybe the incoming President will include the FCC in his reversing needless government rules and recind the immoral spending of taxpayer money on unnecessary technology.


Yeah. It'd be one thing if we were running out of RF spectrum. The other issue is, if the FCC isn't paying for the Phase II upgrade, they are going to have a hard time enforcing it, hence more delays when neither side has the funding.
 
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#18
The mandate for 700 MHz public safety narrowband to 6.25 was eliminated by the FCC on October 17,2014, So it would be up to Marcs to upgrade if and when they chose to. Also Marcs now has a mix of 700/800 of which the 800 was never on the narrowband mandate to begin with.
 

budevans

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#19
The mandate for 700 MHz public safety narrowband to 6.25 was eliminated by the FCC on October 17,2014, So it would be up to Marcs to upgrade if and when they chose to. Also Marcs now has a mix of 700/800 of which the 800 was never on the narrowband mandate to begin with.
Owen, thanks for the Oct. 17, 2014 date. The FCC has known for quite a while that 6.25 bandwidth won't work. Most of the documents I've seen have changed the wording to 6.25 equivalency. What I haven't seen is a specific required timeline with respect to requiring implementation of (6.25 equivalency) TDMA/Phase II.

With respect to MARCS, I have seen recent DAS 2016 documents that refer to 6.25 equivalency (a.k.a.) TDMA/Phase II. The other side of the coin has to do with MARCS and Motorola long term support contracts. The support contracts do spell out End Of Life dates for specific hardware. MARCS is currently in an upgrade/warrantee cycle that will take it out to 2018 or 2019. Included in those Motorola upgrades (I didn't say MARCS requested it) is TDMA functionality.

So all Motorola P25 customers MARCS included, will be getting TDMA as part of their support warrantee contracts. FYI, MARCS currently has Moto support contracts that run to the mid 2020's with options to the mid 2030's.

Since the functionality is baked in if you will. They might as well use it. Which brings me back to my original post. Don't know when it's coming, but it's coming.
 
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