Tropo Ducting

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kg4icg

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There has to be a tropospheric ducting happenning tonight. I'm picking up 800 trunk systems here in Ashburn i don't normally pick up especially in nthe case that i'm using the Radio Shack 800 mhz antenna on my BC396. I'm getting Anne Arundel, Charles County, PG's edacs and a few other Maryland counties and Alexandria, Va. with an indoor antenna. Wish i had a 1.2 ghz antenna for my ts2000x to test out my theory. Oh Well.


R Collins


Hearing the speed of sound travel at the speed of light. Ain't technology grand.
 

rcvmo

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Don't feel bad. On Monday, 05-08-06 in the morning hours, my 800 system was just "saturated" with distant stations over 100 miles away. we could not even talk 2 miles from our 300 foot tower. this lasted only for about 3 hours at the most.
RCVMO
 

kb2vxa

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Hi guys,

For the latest forecast and other useful info check http://home.cogeco.ca/~dxinfo/ with maps galore. Not much happening at the Jersey shore yet, you guys down south always get it first. Stay tuned to Lo Band, next month is the hottest all year for sporadic E propagation.
 

safetyobc

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Here in Arkansas this morning it was booming on 800. Several of the statewide AWIN towers were coming in. Last count I had using my BCD396T with the RS800 was about 14 different towers where I usually on pick up 1. Ranging in distance from my local tower up to about 90+ miles!!!

Several TRS were coming in strong one from about 40 miles out, one from about 80 miles, and was picking up Louisiana State Police. Not sure how far the LSP towers are but rarely do I hear them.

It was a good morning to monitor. Actually when I went to bed around midnight last night, the ducting had begun because I was hearing all the analog TRS on my Pro-2055 using the Scantenna and it usually isn't great on 800. Was getting 5 or 6 towers on AWIN using my BCD396T.

Times like that make me want another 396 or a Pro-96. :)
 

nexus

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Yesterday (19 May) morning we had a lot of good ducting here on the MS Gulf coast. Everything was booming in. I heard police departments I never heard before. I didn't stay up long enough to listen and find out where they were at though.
 

kb2vxa

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Hi again,

Check out that site I mentioned, forecasts for the coming week have you covered in red.

Edit;
Never mind staying up late, conditions are best in the early morning hours and often persist many hours after sunrise. As hot as the maps look they could become sporadic late and come and go all day. You just might get signals from the Carribean, the northern part of South America and Mexico so listen for Spanish.
 
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kb2vxa

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Hi Stan and readers,

The map doesn't jive with Hepburn's at all and I consider his propagation data highly accurate. An airplane won't skew anything, if packets are received incorrectly they're resent, that's the function of error correction found in every data system. What skews things like propagation data is the Internet, most of APRS goes by land line. How are you going to test radio propagation over a telephone line? Hell, the site only offers Internet software when the network was originally radio all the way, not a HINT of software written for actual APRS which uses a TNC, not a freakin' telco modem. "Normal" packet has fallen to the land line lids too, radio forwarding in most of NA is non-existant leaving huge areas without coverage and the mail has been a disaster for years. I'm not a huge fan of IRLP and Echostink is worse, you don't even need a freakin radio, it's all Internet VoIP! BTW, they have the nerve to provide a link to TAPR, they promoted the Internet so hard they killed the radio star they themselves invented! (It wasn't video or the Buggles, hi.)

OK, so much for this radio purist's gripe, once upon a time I used APRS under DOS and it worked well, I had the patience to wait for the map to fill out or a "one liner" to be relayed but that went out the window starting with WinAPRS which has the worst maps I have ever seen. OK, another gripe, I just wish hams would stick with radio, that's what it's all about anyway.

Back to the subject at hand, like I said the maps look hot as H for the coming week, please send some red up here! It might give me some impetus to fix the Mark that's gone deaf on 2M and put up those stacked halos I've been talking about for 2 years now. (;->) SSB and CW is where it's at and that's horizontal, I might just toss out a CQ on one of the exotic modes just to see if someone recognizes the PSK whistle commonly heard on HF.

OK you scanner heads, you think it's fun to listen to distant police business? If you try you can get a basic no code Technician class Amateur license in a month and do some talking, it's easy and it's a start. Then move on to bigger and better, next thing you'll be talking to Russia or France, if you can survive until 2011 you'll be talking round the world when the sun god smiles on us. Last time around Japan took over 15 and 10M, India and Sri Lanka dominated 20 when Autralia would shut up for a moment, Antarctica was a prize. Yes, the world opens it's arms to hams so why not join us?
 

k9swx

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kb2vxa said:
The map doesn't jive with Hepburn's at all and I consider his propagation data highly accurate. An airplane won't skew anything, if packets are received incorrectly they're resent, that's the function of error correction found in every data system. What skews things like propagation data is the Internet, most of APRS goes by land line. How are you going to test radio propagation over a telephone line? Hell, the site only offers Internet software when the network was originally radio all the way, not a HINT of software written for actual APRS which uses a TNC, not a freakin' telco modem. "Normal" packet has fallen to the land line lids too, radio forwarding in most of NA is non-existant leaving huge areas without coverage and the mail has been a disaster for years. I'm not a huge fan of IRLP and Echostink is worse, you don't even need a freakin radio, it's all Internet VoIP! BTW, they have the nerve to provide a link to TAPR, they promoted the Internet so hard they killed the radio star they themselves invented! (It wasn't video or the Buggles, hi.)

OK, so much for this radio purist's gripe, once upon a time I used APRS under DOS and it worked well, I had the patience to wait for the map to fill out or a "one liner" to be relayed but that went out the window starting with WinAPRS which has the worst maps I have ever seen. OK, another gripe, I just wish hams would stick with radio, that's what it's all about anyway.
Wow... Sorry for posting the map, jeesh. I figured it'd be some form of near real-time status of how 2m was doing. Hepburn's maps are great, but they're forecasts and run once a day. I like to use both of them to get an idea what's going on out there. (of course turning on the radio works pretty well too!) ;)

I'm not sure what your beef is about IRLP and Echolink. I guess it's the fact that it's not 'true' radio as you put it. If you don't like it, don't use it. But don't ruin it for the folks who do enjoy it. I think it's great for new hams to be able to talk around the world on their new HT to get their feet wet. I think that would motivate them to work on upgrading their license to get HF privledges. (it's always neat to hear a foreign callsign come across a local repeater, especially for the newer/younger hams)

As for the APRS software, which one are you referring to? I use UI-View32 and it does both RF and Internet transmissions. I think most of them out there offer that same capability. I have a Tinytrak APRS tracker in my car that I use which works fairly well when I'm close to a digipeater. When I'm on longer trips or away from digis, I will use my cell phone data connection to send my position out to the internet. Does this make me less of a ham for not using radio? No... It gets the job done and is fully legal. I think one great thing about ham radio is the fact that it has so many branches to explore. You can talk FM on the local repeaters, send CW, or use one of the many digital modes to send text, data, and images all over the world. You just find the areas you enjoy and stick with them.

OK you scanner heads, you think it's fun to listen to distant police business? If you try you can get a basic no code Technician class Amateur license in a month and do some talking, it's easy and it's a start. Then move on to bigger and better, next thing you'll be talking to Russia or France, if you can survive until 2011 you'll be talking round the world when the sun god smiles on us. Last time around Japan took over 15 and 10M, India and Sri Lanka dominated 20 when Autralia would shut up for a moment, Antarctica was a prize. Yes, the world opens it's arms to hams so why not join us?
I upgraded to general as the cycle was dying down, but still got in there to enjoy 10m. When the band is open on 10m, it's quite exciting. Ever listen to a 10m contest during a good opening, holy crap. ;) Your hand will get tired rotating the dial up and down that band, whew! Fun times...
 

kb2vxa

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Hi again,

What you didn't realize is the gross inaccuracy of that APRS map, you're forgiven. (;->) OK, it's real time but with such holes in the air portion of the network (pockets of radio stitched together with wire) accuracy can't be expected. If it were pure radio it would be several days behind and thoroughly skewed due to the slow propagation across the network so there has to be a trade-off.

Nobody's knocking the communicators, if they want to play Internet games and stay baby hams rather than baby hams growing up with radio and becoming skilled adult operators it's no skin off my nose. Let them have at it but they'll never learn the radio art on the telephone. Read and understand the FCC Rules Part 97 Section 1 so you'll understand that our Intent and Purpose has nothing to do with Internet VoIP communicating with the "ham" version of MSN Messenger.

Now you're asking for it! Nothing personal, this is for the fake hams in the audience and for clarification of my point.

"When I'm on longer trips or away from digis, I will use my cell phone data connection to send my position out to the internet. Does this make me less of a ham for not using radio?"

It doesn't make you a ham at all! Any dipstick can dial a cell phone and feed the Internet with position reporting data, you don't need a license, technical skills, nor anything that makes a ham a ham to use a freakin' cell phone. It's not Amateur Radio, it's Amateur Internet, no license required, no brain either. Hell, at least CBers use radio and we thing the same way about them too, brainless with very few exceptions. Hey, you don't need a license for Echostink either and I proved it by hacking it, won't go into detail but this I'll tell you, security is non existant.

"If you don't like it, don't use it."

I don't and I won't.

"But don't ruin it for the folks who do enjoy it."

How can I ruin it? The kiddies do as they please without parental control.

"I think it's great for new hams to be able to talk around the world on their new HT to get their feet wet."

Yeah, they're ALL wet. At least IRLP uses a 2M cell phone to connect to the Internet, Echostink works without radio at all, peer to peer.

"I think that would motivate them to work on upgrading their license to get HF privledges."

Why bother to upgrade when you can remain a no code tech forever and still talk around the world on an autopatch? That's what IRLP is, an autopatch, you dial a node number (telephone number) on a DTMF pad and talk. They can save the expense of an HF rig too and the neighbors won't mind since there's no tower with a huge tri-bander in the back yard, only a kid in his room with an HT or a computer and no radio at all.

"I'm not sure what your beef is about IRLP and Echolink."

Are you sure now?

"I think one great thing about ham radio is the fact that it has so many branches to explore. You can talk FM on the local repeaters, send CW, or use one of the many digital modes to send text, data, and images all over the world. You just find the areas you enjoy and stick with them."

NOW you're talking! (And that's the title of a very good book.) Personally, I use repeaters as repeaters, that is to extend my range rather than a street corner hangout. I much prefer FM simplex, SSB and packet, soon to fire up more sophisticated digital modes. BUAM, I never bothered transmitting ATV, monitoring was boring enough with all the talking heads. (;->)

"I upgraded to general as the cycle was dying down, but still got in there to enjoy 10m."

Great, at least you caught the tail end but 20M ain't dead yet, Australia was coming in a few hours ago. I caught a VK4 on PSK weak and sometimes jumbled but definately there. Even at this low spot it opens but unfortunately the summer static is here lousing up the lower frequecies. It was rough on 20 too with T storms floating around out there somewhere. PSK is an excellent weak signal mode but what they don't tell you is like any mode except perhaps FM is noise tears it up.

"Your hand will get tired rotating the dial up and down that band, whew! Fun times..."

YEE-HAAAA! At the last peak I operated my ex landlord's station, one of the finest I have ever seen and worked DC to daylight all modes QRP to QRO. It was a BLAST with the world at my doorstep. My fingers got tired from working a whole bank of dials and switches for hours on end, used every trick in the book busting pile-ups and actually wrote a few myself. Brute force isn't the answer, stealth is. Sneak up behing them and they jump, then sometimes it's persistance that pays off. I pestered this guy for a full hour and a half until he finally came back and told me he was only working the big guns but I annoyed him so much he just had to get rid of me. (;->)

There are eight million QSOs in The Naked Log Book and this has been one of them.
My apologies to the Golden Age of television for stealing a signature line.

Edited for spelling.
 
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kb9umt

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Warren,

Here are some of your key words/points that you wrote while at the same time trying to want other non-Hams to joint the Ham ranks:

“Gross inaccuracy of that APRS map, you’re forgiven”

I would like to know what inaccuracy the APRS map has in more detail other than you don’t like the Internet interaction? Also, who are you to forgive someone for something or a site you never even tried to use to actually have a good opinion for comparison (it’s nice that you are a forgiving person though, for what I don’t know or maybe you were just kidding here I guess).


“Nobody’s knocking the communicators”

Oh really? Then what are you doing?


“if they want to play Internet games and stay baby hams rather than baby hams growing up with radio and becoming skilled adult operators it’s no skin off my nose”

What? I think you need to understand something, the Internet is here to stay and it’s one form of communication media that you just might snag some younger folks to get them interested in Ham Radio. I would think anyone with your great knowledge would know that EchoLink, IRLP, etc not only connects Hams via the Internet but also to RF sources throughout the world. I would also think you would know that many Hams are in restricted areas and many can operate linked via the Internet to Ham Internet linked stations to operate RF Ham radio at another location that is not restricted. I would also think that this would be a good thing, but maybe you are from the days when SSB was just introduced so you might be an example of a CW op from long ago getting on SSB to tell the SSB ops how useless SSB is and only CW can be used for Ham Radio communications (I would think someone using the Internet would not bash the Internet when they are the ones using it for communication, maybe you should use RF but then again maybe others around you have seen your limited views on things and don’t listen any longer thus your search for an Internet non-RF audience). By the way, you might want to check your nose for skin damage, you seem to be very upset over Hams that want to use Internet Linking and the like.


“It doesn’t make you a Ham”

Warren, in your limited view of things what does make you a Ham?


“It's not Amateur Radio, it's Amateur Internet, no license required, no brain either”

Now you have insulted not only Internet Linking Hams but maybe all those here that communicate via the Internet, and you want to make new Hams by saying these type comments? I’m starting to think that maybe they should make people licensed to use the Internet.


“Hell, at least CBers use radio and we thing the same way about them too, brainless with very few exceptions”

Warren, there is no “WE” in this statement, it’s YOU thing or maybe you meant think. I would bet many Hams from the 60’s and 70’s first got interested in radio in the CB craze days and then found Ham Radio and got into Ham Radio to explore more about radio. I would think that any Ham would welcome ANYONE into Ham radio and say someone is brainless (not a real great way to get non-Hams interested if they are Cbers, but then again Warren obviously never ever talked on a CB nor does he like Cbers since he is a Ham Radio Operator). Ham Radio has something for EVERYONE.


“Now you're asking for it! Nothing personal, this is for the fake hams in the audience and for clarification of my point.”

Warren what are ‘fake Hams”? And your clarifications on the whole Ham Radio Internet linking media is poor at best. I’m sure we would hate to attract young folks that already use the Internet into Ham Radio with something familiar to them. It would be a shame to have a poor young kid of let’s say 13 or 15 years of age get interested in the Ham Radio hobby without having him turned off because he might not be able to afford everything YOU want him to do. We also must never tell him he could actually work the world in his room on an HT with a Tech License…NO NO NO! Let Warren tell these young kids how to do Ham Radio his way, these poor young kids can mow grass till they are 40 years old to save for an HF Ham Radio station, like an Icom ic-7800 that costs around $10,000, a huge 100ft tall $5,000 tower, a long boom TriBander yagi for around $1,500, add rotor,coax,guys,cement,permits,etcetc yes Warren let’s tell the kids they have to spend $50,000 to be a real Ham….you have got to be kidding me.

How can someone posting a site about real time APRS maps be given such a rude reply then you try to sell Ham Radio to others that are not Hams by insulting a fellow Ham? Then you also go that extra step and say that Cber’s are or Internet users are brainless. Warren, I’m old but I’m afraid you might be getting too old OM, things are changing and although you will never change from the sounds of your reply the world around you will….change can be a good thing so maybe it’s time you practice what you preach, GO BACK TO THE RADIO.

kb9umt Don EN50dp
 

N4UYV_Al

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Yup, I use Echolink...When the HF band gods aren't with me on a certain days where I want to communicate with my friend in the mountains of Virginia, I just give him a yell on his local 2 meter Echolink repeater & talk away...I wont knock echolink or IRLP because they're just another form of communicating within the hobby & YES, if my voice is transmitting to him thru a repeater & over the air, I AM TRANSMITTING.. The amateur radio hobby hasn't recruited alot of the younger crowd since the internet, & it's not getting any better, so when someone asks me about my hobby (whether it's a CB'er or not) I try to get them interested in any way I can...I've had people I demonstrated Ham radio to, come back to me over the air or see them out & about say "Al, I got my ticket!! my call is ......" All because I pushed a button & talked to some great people out there..."Hey, why stop there at technician?, go for your general"! I was "Elmer'd" by a great ham & I hope to pass it down the line..
In today's Amateur Radio hobby, we have to keep up with technology but still keep the 'old-school attitude' of amateur radio recruitment..I know old hams who complain that 'FM' ruined ham radio & countless other complaints that they say 'damaged' the hobby itself..But not one of them would EVER think of saying anything that would have someone 'second-guess' joining the hobby..I'm a licensed General class but I dont like CW, had to learn it to pass the test but I'm not a CW operator. Does that make me less of a ham?? I just think that I can say something over the air alot faster than using the key...I love contesting, but I wont knock people that hate it...I've used just about every mode of ham radio at one time or another..Although I don't prefer alot of modes, some other hams do but I would never hold them at fault for it...Hey, to each his own..Either way, we are all amateur radio operators & we are expected to promote international goodwill, globally or locally...Using the computer or internet combined with ham radio??? I'll almost bet that if you dig deep enough, you'll find that there are probably more than a few hams involved with the invention of both. If you use the computer to look up a callsign on QRZ.com then you're using the internet with ham radio ;)
If my above post is gonna get me blasted with posts & pm's by my fellow hams then please don't bother answering my CQ's on the air & tear up your licenses...lol
Thanks for reading...73's

OMG!!! I rambled on so long I realize that I was part of a forum hi-jacking after I hit the save button!!! My appologies to the original poster...
 
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kb2vxa

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HI once again,

I'm not going to continue a pointless argument, I have well made my point which is;

"When the HF band gods aren't with me on a certain days where I want to communicate with my friend in the mountains of Virginia..."

Thank you Al, the key word here is "communicate", not even involving the use of radio. The key word in Amateur Radio is RADIO, not communication by some other means. That's what separates the hams from the communiators, in other words what seperates the men from the boys.

End of discussion.
 

nd5y

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If hams using VoIP linking is not radio, then what if your local public safety agency uses consoles linked to their base or repeater sites with a telco line or a VoIP internet link? Is that also not radio?
 

N4UYV_Al

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kb2vxa said:
HI once again,

I'm not going to continue a pointless argument, I have well made my point which is;

That's what separates the hams from the communiators, in other words what seperates the men from the boys.

End of discussion.

Now it sounds like the difference between the real hams & the communicators are just a license class apart...End of discussion
 
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