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Trunking Control Channel question

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Lexxx

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Hello

I stream several agencies over the internet. I have noticed some changes in the way my system handles this EDACS system. There have been changes to this system as noticed by several others, as the system is going through some apparent upgrades.

The system seems to be more stable now, but it has changed somehow, and I’m having trouble inserting some “tags” to the stream that match known LCNs to text that I sent out to a user’s audio player.

My suspicion is that although all the control channels may be correct, they may have changed in order, or some of the alternate control channels are now primary channels. I'm not really sure.

Anyway, my question is, are there programs out there that will allow me to check this EDACS system to confirm all the control channels are correct, and in the order in which they must be programmed into my scanners?

I have started to go through this Wiki page on the subject, but before trying several diagnostic programs, I really want to know if what I want to do is possible to achieve.

Any help is certainly appreciated.

Peter
 

mikewazowski

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You can use Etrunker or Unitrunker to match LCN's to frequencies. You'll need a discriminator tap on your scanner to use either of these programs.

Once you've got it running, use a second scanner to match the LCN's displayed with the actual frequencies.
 

Lexxx

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Mike

Thanks for this.

Just so I'm perfectly clear on this, if I modify my 996t with a discriminator tap, and use one of the programs you mention, I will be able to confirm a complete listing of all the control channels AND will be able to determine the correct order of the primary and alternate control channels? Correct?

Peter
 

slicerwizard

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You will be able to verify which LCN is assigned to each RF channel by using a second radio to monitor voice comms while watching channel assignments on the EDACS decoding application. Is that clear enough?

And what do you mean when you refer to "the correct order of primary and secondary CCs"?
 

Lexxx

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You will be able to verify which LCN is assigned to each RF channel by using a second radio to monitor voice comms while watching channel assignments on the EDACS decoding application. Is that clear enough?
Crystal. I have trunking scanners, so this is not an issue.

And what do you mean when you refer to "the correct order of primary and secondary CCs"?
Hmm. Well perhaps my understanding of these systems is incorrect (I'm certainly not a scanner expert)

The EDACS system in question is this one in Waterloo. When setting up my radios, and on advice from people within these forums, it was suggested I enter the control channels into my trunking scanner in exactly the same order as depicted here



The source is RadioReference, and clearly refers to "primary" and "alternate" control channels. That's what I meant.

So my questions are:

Does the order of CCs (primary and alternate) matter?

Is there a difference between primary and secondary CCs, and if those in charge of the system switched the position of one or two of the channels, how would that affect my ability to monitor the system?

In response to a question on discriminator taps in another thread, I was told there is no difference ".............they rotate the control channel among all the channels daily, so technically there is no distinction between Primary and Alternate control channels. They are all just Control Channels".

I may be barking up the wrong tree here about the order of these CCs, and something else is going on, but the system has changed for me, and I don't know what has caused it.

Within my computer system, when a talkgroup becomes active, a "tag" (example 'Kitchener Division') replaces the talkgroup id, and the tag is streamed to a listener's Winamp player. It works very well. However now, there are times when instead of the tag being sent, one of the CC shows up as active and an actual CC frequency is displayed without any voice, and it's not always the same CC.

Just listening to the system I get the feeling I should have heard something. An answer to a question, or something like that. I'm missing some transmissions, and can't figure out what is causing it.

If I can rule out an error in the chart above, or eliminate the possibility it's a control channel issue at all, that would save me the trouble of adding a discriminator tap to my 996t to know for sure.

I know it's frowned upon, but I'm going to double post this in the trunking forum as well in hopes of getting suggestions.

Any advice or comment from anyone is certainly appreciated.

Thanks,

Peter
 

fmon

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Disregard controls and alt controls for EDACS systems. Program all frequencies including controls and alt controls in exact order as listed. The Waterloo system has 16 frequencies starting with 01 through 16.

Edit: Only one of the listed controls are active at any given time, normally the inactive controls are use for voice so they are needed in assigned location when required by active control for voice or any other use such as CWID or I-Call.
 
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mikewazowski

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I think you're confusing control channels and voice channels and that's why people are having problems helping you. You're misunderstanding of what a voice channel and a control channel is might be why you're having problems tracking the system and others aren't.

You say "an actual CC frequency is displayed without any voice". Voice channels carry voice traffic, control channels carry control information, i.e. a constant data stream. Every site has one or more control channels but only one is in use at a time. If one of the alternate control channels is not in use for control (constant data stream) then it can be used for voice. If the control channel tells your scanner to go to a voice channel and you don't hear the call, then it looks like you haven't got the lcn correct for that voice channel.

On an EDACS system, every channel must be in it's proper lcn position. That's the little number to the left of the frequency. Doesn't matter whether it's a control channel or a voice channel, it must be in the appropriate lcn position on your scanner.

If all your channels are entered in properly with regards to the lcn, then it doesn't matter which control channel is currently running the system and what voice channels are used.

You must have this lcn order correctly entered for all the channels on the system.

Like I said before, one way to do it is to have a discriminator tapped scanner with a program such as etrunker *and* a second scanner.

It's easiest to do this during non-busy times when only one or two voice channels are active.

Set your second scanner up in search mode and when etrunker displays a voice channel in use, note it's lcn and use your second scanner to search out what the actual voice channel is in use. Sometimes it's easy to just enter the system frequencies in as conventional channels and just quickly tune through them to find the appropriate voice channel. That way you can correlate what lcn belongs to what frequency.

Once you've got the lcn's matched to the system frequencies, enter them into your scanner in the appropriate lcn position and you should be able to follow the system properly.

You might ask somebody to send you a working 996T file so you can get up and running.

Once again, get the correct lcn order of all the frequencies of the system, the control channels will be correct.
 

mikewazowski

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Hopefully the entire thread gets moved instead of just snippets but basically, it looks like you're confusing voice and control channels which is confusing everybody trying to help.

Basically you must enter the entire system in the correct lcn order. Doesn't matter if it's a control channel or voice channel, it must be entered in the correct lcn order.

If your scanner is tuning to a voice channel and you aren't hearing amy voice comm's, then chances are you've got the lcn order wrong.

Hopefully somebody here can send you a file that's working for them.
 

Lexxx

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Kitchener, Canada
Mike

Thanks for this. You have clarified the control frequency issue for me.

I have had all the frequencies in the correct order for some time in my 996t, and have been streaming the system for several years without any issues. The Waterloo Police stream actually comes through this web site now.

I'm going to have to look to other possible areas to resolve my problem.

Thanks again for you input

Peter
Waterloo Live Scanner Feeds
 

motomeso

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I am confused? Doesn't the software insert out the talkgroup information ? If the scanner is tracking the system ok and displaying the proper TGID then it should also be sending that info out the serial port for you tagging software.

Hello

I stream several agencies over the internet. I have noticed some changes in the way my system handles this EDACS system. There have been changes to this system as noticed by several others, as the system is going through some apparent upgrades.

The system seems to be more stable now, but it has changed somehow, and I’m having trouble inserting some “tags” to the stream that match known LCNs to text that I sent out to a user’s audio player.

My suspicion is that although all the control channels may be correct, they may have changed in order, or some of the alternate control channels are now primary channels. I'm not really sure.

Anyway, my question is, are there programs out there that will allow me to check this EDACS system to confirm all the control channels are correct, and in the order in which they must be programmed into my scanners?

I have started to go through this Wiki page on the subject, but before trying several diagnostic programs, I really want to know if what I want to do is possible to achieve.

Any help is certainly appreciated.

Peter
 
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