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TRX-1 - Seattle area problems

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nessnet

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201
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Kenmore, WA
#1
I have a new TRX-1
Updated library and firmware, etc.
(uses most current Radioreference data)

WSP - hear radio traffic fine everywhere.
KCSO, Seattle PD, Bellevue PD, Bothell PD, etc - just fine in certain areas like North end of Lake Washington - most other areas - dead silence. Nothing....
Site shows EPSCA Simulcast.

I can be in DT Seattle/Renton/Kent/Redmond, etc, etc, etc, (most places) and the TRX-1 is dead silent.
I can see it trying, display populates with alpha-tag, but it won't decode.

Basically, every LEA (law enforcement agency) uses Seattle-King County Public Safety (KCERS).
So, unless I am in range of "EPSCA Simulcast", there is nothing.

Anyone having the same problem?
Solutions?
 

RBMTS

WA Database Admin
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606
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Naperville, IL
#2
It's not the radio but rather the programming. You'll need to enter in custom "rebanding" table information as the entire Seattle system was rebanded some time ago. I'm not familiar with the software program of the TRX1 so I can't help you there. But what you describe about the radio trying grab frequency information but you hear nothing is exactly how an un-rebanded system setup will act.

Even though you downloaded all of the proper frequency information from RR, the radio is reading the data from the control channel. The control channel data carries all of the channel assignments. That is done by a channel number (not by frequency). Therefore because your scanner does not have the proper rebanding setup, the scanner is trying to listen to a totally different frequency than what it should be.

Maybe someone else with a TRX1 can assist you with how to put in the proper "Rebanding" tables.

Also a little bit of additional information for you. The Seattle system is a "Smartzone" system which means that you won't hear all talk groups on the EPSCA Simulcast zone. Some of the sites would be too overloaded if they were to carry all the talk groups for the entire system. One perfect example is that if you are listening to EPSCA, you won't hear the working TG's for Seattle FD (you'll hear dispatch but that is all). The working TG's are carried on the Seattle Simulcast system. Same is true of some TG's for the PD.

There is a great deal of information in the Washington specific forum area.
 

nessnet

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Kenmore, WA
#3
Thanks for the info.
I suspected.....

But first:
The TRX-1 is programmed directly from the latest RR data.
If it is wrong, shouldn't it be corrected?
One would think I'm not the only TRX-1 owner in the WWA area having this issue.
That they'd be raising holy hell.
In fact, the Uniden radios are programmed from RR data as well.
So, one would think they'd have the same issue.

Second:
I noticed that EPSCA Simulcast trunking table was listed as custom.
Others were splinter, some custom, some default.
Custom has an edit button.
When custom is selected (changed from splinter or default) - there is a set reband button, that when pressed, populates a blank table the same info as what I see in EPSCA Simulcast.
So, one would think this is the fix?

So, I went in and changed all the sites - changed to custom, clicked the set reband button and saved to radio.

Afterwards, even EPSCA Simulcast seemed to go silent when I did this, but it may have been a low radio traffic time of day and I didn't travel to another area to test.

However, I went into the radio's library and redid some scanlists (back to RR data) and boom, traffic.
On EPSCA Simulcast.....

Pulling my hair out trying to make this $500 boat anchor work.
 
Joined
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6,190
#4
What system are you trying to listen to? I don't see any systems named EPSCA unless I'm missing it
 
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#6
GRE/RS/WHISTLER 800mhz Rebanding Table
These are the tables you should be using if they aren't the way to begin with.

Band Plan Base Freq (lower) Base Freq (upper) Low Channel High Channel Polarity Spacing
1 851.025. 854.000 440 559 + 25 khz
2 851.0125 868.9875 0 719 + 25 khz
 

nessnet

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Messages
201
Location
Kenmore, WA
#7
To clarify, I have all KCERS sites (below) programmed into the TRX-1 and enabled.
I also enabled the advanced features / line 4 / system and site name.
So, I can see what site any trunked traffic is on - (when I actually hear any)

So... for ANY agency on KCERS, I only hear traffic from EPSCA Simulcast.
If I am out of range of EPSCA Simulcast (like downtown) I am out of luck - dead silence.
If I am in range, the TRX-1 picks up traffic from everyone, (SPD, KCSO, Norcom, various city PD, etc)

Has every Seattle-King County Public Safety (KCERS) site (below from RR) been rebanded?

Below is the sites and what RR has programmed the table for each:

001 (1) Seattle Simulcast - Splinter
002 (2) Appletree Cove - custom
003 (3) EPSCA Simulcast - custom
006 (6) King County/ValleyCom Simulcast - splinter
007 (7) EPSCA North Seattle - custom
008 (8) Grass Mountain - custom
009 (9) Sobieski Mountain - default
011 (B) McDonald Mountain ( Kangley ) - default
013 (D) Snoqualmie Pass (Dodge Ridge) - default
014 (E) Capitol Hill (Seattle Backup) - default
015 (F) King County Courthouse - custom
016 (10) Sound Transit ( South Portal Low Power 5W ) - custom
017 (11) Regional Justice Center - custom
040 (28) Education Hill - custom
041 (29) Newcastle IR (SE Bellevue Area) - custom

Custom is showing the below table:
(I assume the below is the rebanded table, because this is the info populated when I click the "Set Reband" in a blank table.

Ch-Lo Ch-Hi Offset Base Freq Step
440 559 440 851.0250 25.00
0 719 0 851.0125 25.00
720 759 0 848.0000 25.00
815 831 0 846.6250 25.00
958 958 958 868.9750 25.00
961 1022 0 843.4000 25.00

So, assuming the "custom" sites are rebanded, why wouldn't I be hearing them also??
 

nessnet

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Kenmore, WA
#9
Is Whistler reading these...?
There were a couple of problems I have found.
I (think) I have solved both.

When investigating this issue, I noticed that occasionally many of the KCERS sites' freqs were gone. Example: One of the main simulcast sites had only 4-5 frequencies, when it should have had 31. Freqs were missing on many other sites.

Somehow, they got dumped, due to some glitch somewhere. I didn't remove them.
And it happened multiple times, so there is a coding problem somewhere.
Problem solved by just verifying every time that all freq are there, on each site before saving.

As to RR and their data.
Currently, the library version loading is V-496.
In 496, RR is erroneously setting some of KCERS sites as default, or splinter.
I now manually put them all custom (rebanded).

For you TRX-1 owners, in the dropdown, change it to custom, press edit and then set reband and save.

I now have verified all of each individual sites have the right number of frequencies. I then checked that each site was set to custom and the table was correct. – all were set to custom (rebanded).

I went for a drive and sat across the lake from DT Seattle and got traffic on multiple other sites.
Did some further testing and yes, we have a working TRX-1 in Seattle.

ATTN: TRX owners!!!
In the case where RR data is wrong, if you add any trunkgroups to that system in the future, (in my case KCERS), it will over-ride any reband settings you have done manually - until RR finally gets around to fixing it. You have to check it every time before saving.
 
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Messages
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Location
Colorado
#10
Is Whistler reading these...?
There were a couple of problems I have found.
I (think) I have solved both.
Technically all the problems encountered are on the RadioReference Database side. Whistler gets the data from RadioReference and RadioReference gets the data from volunteers.

When investigating this issue, I noticed that occasionally many of the KCERS sites' freqs were gone. Example: One of the main simulcast sites had only 4-5 frequencies, when it should have had 31. Freqs were missing on many other sites.

Somehow, they got dumped, due to some glitch somewhere. I didn't remove them.
And it happened multiple times, so there is a coding problem somewhere.
Problem solved by just verifying every time that all freq are there, on each site before saving
It's actually not so much a glitch as it is how the scanner operates. The scanner uses Control Channel Only scanning. The scanner does not need to know any of the other frequencies because it can only use the Control Channel to track calls.

I hope you don't have to go back to reprogram it anytime soon as it sounds like it has been quite an ordeal, but if you look at the 4-5 frequencies that it imports, they should be the red (primary control channel) and blue (alternate control channel) frequencies you see in the database.

The real problem begins when the database isn't set correctly, then nothing works properly. You tend to only need to program all frequencies when the database is not correct.

As to RR and their data.
Currently, the library version loading is V-496.
In 496, RR is erroneously setting some of KCERS sites as default, or splinter.
I now manually put them all custom (rebanded).
From the looks of it, you have actually helped improve the RadioReference Database with this post. It appears a database admin has gone into the database and changed all the problem sites to use the correct tables. You should be able to directly import without additional problems after the next database update, which should be after this weekend.
 
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Messages
6,190
#11
It appeared the system was already set up to be rebanded so nothing in that sense was changed as far as I know.

And I'm not sure where all those 866 freqs in the first site came from. I don't believe those are active/in use. They aren't listed on either license.
 
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nessnet

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Premium Subscriber
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Messages
201
Location
Kenmore, WA
#12
It appeared the system was already set up to be rebanded so nothing in that sense was changed as far as I know.

And I'm not sure where all those 866 freqs in the first site came from. I don't believe those are active/in use. They aren't listed on either license.
The frequencies, I don't know.
RR has them on the website - and they all load via V-496 - now anyway.

Loading ANY TG was changing the tables.
It wasn't me.
I verified that the changes were happening - every time.

The only logical explanation is that RR's data was wrong and overwriting EZ Scan and the radio.

An earlier post says they saw the changes.
Maybe you checked after the changes were done?
I did post to RR directly yesterday.

And....

Saturday, December 03, 2016 8:26 AM
Your submission #175953 was completed by lowboy654
 

RBMTS

WA Database Admin
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Messages
606
Location
Naperville, IL
#13
I just completed some updates and took out those 866-868 frequencies to the Seattle site. They should not have impacted your receive any way and the scanner would be watching a control channel that the ones we have listed are accurate.

Make sure to only listen to the three main sites (Seattle Simulcast, EPSCA Simulcast, and ValleyCom Simulcast. These are the wide-area sites. The other sites are fill-in Intellipeaters that would only carry very local traffic of units affiliated into them.
 
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