• To anyone looking to acquire commercial radio programming software:

    Please do not make requests for copies of radio programming software which is sold (or was sold) by the manufacturer for any monetary value. All requests will be deleted and a forum infraction issued. Making a request such as this is attempting to engage in software piracy and this forum cannot be involved or associated with this activity. The same goes for any private transaction via Private Message. Even if you attempt to engage in this activity in PM's we will still enforce the forum rules. Your PM's are not private and the administration has the right to read them if there's a hint to criminal activity.

    If you are having trouble legally obtaining software please state so. We do not want any hurt feelings when your vague post is mistaken for a free request. It is YOUR responsibility to properly word your request.

    To obtain Motorola software see the Sticky in the Motorola forum.

    The various other vendors often permit their dealers to sell the software online (i.e., Kenwood). Please use Google or some other search engine to find a dealer that sells the software. Typically each series or individual radio requires its own software package. Often the Kenwood software is less than $100 so don't be a cheapskate; just purchase it.

    For M/A Com/Harris/GE, etc: there are two software packages that program all current and past radios. One package is for conventional programming and the other for trunked programming. The trunked package is in upwards of $2,500. The conventional package is more reasonable though is still several hundred dollars. The benefit is you do not need multiple versions for each radio (unlike Motorola).

    This is a large and very visible forum. We cannot jeopardize the ability to provide the RadioReference services by allowing this activity to occur. Please respect this.
  • Effective immediately we will be deleting, without notice, any negative threads or posts that deal with the use of encryption and streaming of scanner audio.

    We've noticed a huge increase in rants and negative posts that revolve around agencies going to encryption due to the broadcasting of scanner audio on the internet. It's now worn out and continues to be the same recycled rants. These rants hijack the threads and derail the conversation. They no longer have a place anywhere on this forum other than in the designated threads in the Rants forum in the Tavern.

    If you violate these guidelines your post will be deleted without notice and an infraction will be issued. We are not against discussion of this issue. You just need to do it in the right place. For example:
    https://forums.radioreference.com/rants/224104-official-thread-live-audio-feeds-scanners-wait-encryption.html

TYT GMRS mobile and FRS handheld radios submitted to FCC certification

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
Feb 17, 2003
Messages
1,138
Location
Nashua, NH
#3
14K4F3E should have been flagged by the system and rejected. Part of the problem with the CCRs and FCC non-compliance is nobody is checking. Errors whether accidental or intentional end up falling through the cracks.


Sent from my XP8800 using Tapatalk
 
Joined
Mar 30, 2005
Messages
3,229
Location
So Cali
#6
"No surprise there. It's SOP for CCR manufacturers these days it seems." Hans13

So these supposed certified radios do NOT meet the FCC Regulations that cover 99% of use.
And these CCR manufactures LIED on the FCC Certification applications.

"14K4F3E is a wee bit better that Midland and the other CCR's including BaoFeng-Shui" RFI-EMI-GUY

So these radios do NOT meet the regulations even for import or sale in the US.
 
Joined
Dec 19, 2002
Messages
7,832
Location
Wichita Falls, TX
#7
GMRS radios are allowed up to 20 kHz bandwidth (on ch 1-7, 15-22 and the repeater inputs). If some manufacturer decides to use 14 kHz bandwidth then there is no rule preventing that.
 
Joined
Dec 30, 2014
Messages
896
#8
"No surprise there. It's SOP for CCR manufacturers these days it seems." Hans13

So these supposed certified radios do NOT meet the FCC Regulations that cover 99% of use.
And these CCR manufactures LIED on the FCC Certification applications.

"14K4F3E is a wee bit better that Midland and the other CCR's including BaoFeng-Shui" RFI-EMI-GUY

So these radios do NOT meet the regulations even for import or sale in the US.
*Shrugs shoulders* Not my circus, not my monkeys. I'm an anarchist. ;)
 
Joined
Dec 22, 2013
Messages
3,000
#9
GMRS radios are allowed up to 20 kHz bandwidth (on ch 1-7, 15-22 and the repeater inputs). If some manufacturer decides to use 14 kHz bandwidth then there is no rule preventing that.
No there is no law preventing that because the weak modulation will fit into the emission mask. But it is deceptive. Midland and Baofeng play this game. Midland sells FRS radios marketed as GMRS by adding some channels. They are narrow band 11K and the folks that shop Wal-Mart don't know the difference. Baofeng is worse, the radios are in the range 5K7 to 10K7. The folks who shop Amazon don't care at all as long as it is the cheapest possible way to get something shiny.

Now TYT is specd at 14K4. Are they trying to split the difference? Make a radio that won't be too loud and distorted for FRS and not too weak for GMRS?

It's like sending the wife out to buy a case of beer and she brings back a couple 6 packs. Or worse yet a case of near beer.


Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk
 
Joined
Dec 30, 2014
Messages
896
#10
Now TYT is specd at 14K4. Are they trying to split the difference? Make a radio that won't be too loud and distorted for FRS and not too weak for GMRS?
That's a good question. It would be nice if they were actually thinking along those lines.

n00b question from me... Given that they certified with reduced power, presumably to fit within the allowable ppm, could they also have reduced the bandwidth because it would get ugly and not pass certification if they drove the design all the way to 20 kHz?
 
Joined
Jul 27, 2005
Messages
10,282
Location
Point Nemo.
#11
That's a good question. It would be nice if they were actually thinking along those lines.

n00b question from me... Given that they certified with reduced power, presumably to fit within the allowable ppm, could they also have reduced the bandwidth because it would get ugly and not pass certification if they drove the design all the way to 20 kHz?
Very likely.

Another reason is that it takes more labor to adjust radios as they go down the assembly line. If you just get them "close enough" but not over, you can crank out more radios for less Yen.
 
Joined
Dec 22, 2013
Messages
3,000
#12
That's a good question. It would be nice if they were actually thinking along those lines.

n00b question from me... Given that they certified with reduced power, presumably to fit within the allowable ppm, could they also have reduced the bandwidth because it would get ugly and not pass certification if they drove the design all the way to 20 kHz?
I think that some of the low parts count radios from China, the radios that are based on a common transceiver on a chip, cannot possibly do wide band, or even fit the mask for narrow band. These radios I am sure have the deviation constrained because they have no modulation limiter and outboard modulation filtering.

It will be interesting to get a sample of the new TYT radio to see if it has adjustable deviation and what the design is based upon.

Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk
 
Joined
Dec 22, 2013
Messages
3,000
#14
14K4F3E should have been flagged by the system and rejected. Part of the problem with the CCRs and FCC non-compliance is nobody is checking. Errors whether accidental or intentional end up falling through the cracks.


Sent from my XP8800 using Tapatalk
Sadly there is no mechanism. The EIA and TIA published a spec many years back called EIA/TIA603D. No self respecting radio manufacturer would design a radio unless it met the MINIMUM requirements of this document. You could be relatively sure the radio would be a radio if tested to these specs. Now the manufacturers could design a better radio and sell it at a premium and they did. So you coukd have three tiers of Motorola , Harris, EfJohnson , Kenwood, ICOM or Vertex radios and you coukd be assured that they would perform to their advertised specs. Mostly the price differences were in the receiver specs, but they had to meet the FCC emission masks so you saw a few common emission designators, nobody played games with deviation or filtering because EIA/TIA603D spelled out exactly how to test and what the result should be.

These cheap radios don't comply to any standards other than fitting into FCC masks which are strictly to limit interference. The FCC does not care about suitability. They should.

Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk
 
Joined
Dec 30, 2014
Messages
896
#15
I think that some of the low parts count radios from China, the radios that are based on a common transceiver on a chip, cannot possibly do wide band, or even fit the mask for narrow band. These radios I am sure have the deviation constrained because they have no modulation limiter and outboard modulation filtering.
Without the technical specifics in mind, that's generally what I was guessing as possible. Thanks. :)
 
Joined
Dec 22, 2013
Messages
3,000
#16
Very likely.

Another reason is that it takes more labor to adjust radios as they go down the assembly line. If you just get them "close enough" but not over, you can crank out more radios for less Yen.
That is a good point, and exactly why you can have a tolerable abount of rat feces in your food.

Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk
 
Joined
Dec 4, 2018
Messages
66
#17
Very likely.

Another reason is that it takes more labor to adjust radios as they go down the assembly line. If you just get them "close enough" but not over, you can crank out more radios for less Yen.
Oh, they're making them in Japan now? ;)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top