UBCD-3600XLT vs BCD436HP

[EuropeanUser]

Hello,

I'm looking at a scanner that can handle DMR, and would like it to handle Tier III and Capacity Plus as well. I can see that the 436HP has recently had an update that fixes some capacity plus issues, but that update doesn't seem to be available for the 3600XLT.

It seems uncertain whether the 3600xlt will get continuous firmware updates, which the 436HP does. That would indicate to me that the 436HP could be more future proof, at least for the nearest future.

So for someone living in Europe, would it make sense to get the 436HP instead of the 3600XLT? The band plans would be a bit off I guess. Or is the 3600xlt expected to get the same firmware updates?

 

[G7HID]

Since the 3600 was released in the UK we have had no updates, not even a Chrismas card from Uniden.. We have no UK agent just an email address and a phone number in the Netherlands..

Mike

 

[EuropeanUser]

Yeah that's kinda my concern based on how European models have been handled in the past. We pay at least as much if not more though so I kinda expect the same level of service regarding updates.

 

[G7HID]

Perhaps someone from Uniden would like to comment ?

Mike

 

[racingfan360]

So for someone living in Europe, would it make sense to get the 436HP instead of the 3600XLT? The band plans would be a bit off I guess. Or is the 3600xlt expected to get the same firmware updates?

My advice is to go for the 436. AFAIK there have been zero firmware updates to ANY 436 variants outside of North America. I'm fairly sure our Australian friends haven't even received a DMR upgrade to the UBCD436PT yet ! The Uniden website doesn't recognize any non-US models either, which I think is a further clue that this position isn't going to change soon, if ever.

Unlike the Whistlers, all the useful bandplans are a doddle to change via software. If it helps, I had no issues at all buying a 436 from amazon, and importing into the UK. There is bit of a trick to buying the DMR key from Uniden outside of the US....feel free to PM me for more details. It's a good scanner, albeit that DMR simplex is a bit rubbish and if you need NXDN decoding capability then you'll need a Whistler.

 

[EuropeanUser]

It looks like that may be the best solution but it will cost more unfortunately. I'll PM you if I go that route, thanks!

 

[G7HID]

This might give you a feel for the technical expertise of our support contact:

My question sent to Avera the European Uniden distributor 12 Feb 2017:

Did you know that the 3600 has a problem receiving simplex DMR signals ?
My 3600 will not stop on simplex DMR on Close Call or Search and when monitoring on frequency no audio is passed..

>Dear Mike
>You gave us the above question
>Checking this matter
>Hope to have answer soon

On 13/02/2017 11:34, Avera wrote:
Dear Mike
There are many different types of DMR
In the BLOG and in the user manual the DMR systems are listed that are covered by this scanner.
Other types of DMR are not covered
The DMR used by HAM operators is covered.

Not sure what you understand by simplex DMR
Can you give information about this,
what standard is this?
what brand type, is using this?
what kind of users/ aplication ?

My reply:
Hi Piet, 3600 in SEARCH mode 430 - 440MHz, Amateur DMR repeaters are detected and audio received with no problem,
Hytera and Connect Systems DMR portables transmitting and receiving on 434.225MHz (simplex), 90% of the time not detected and when detected 80% of the time only DMR buzz is heard..
My Whistler WS1088 and TRX-1 and both portables detect and receive DMR from whichever portable is transmitting, range distance of test 3m to 50m..
This is a standard DMR mode of operation using good quality portables on designated Ham frequencies.
Note in the United States Simplex is sometimes known as Talkaround or back to back..

Simplex DMR: communication between 2 or more DMR radios using a single frequency but without using a Time Slot or repeater infrastructure..

If you require more information please let me know.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mike

 

[racingfan360]

Not sure what you understand by simplex DMR
Can you give information about this,
what standard is this?
what brand type, is using this?
what kind of users/ aplication ?

Wow ! That is truly frightening Mike....if anyone wasn't convinced about poor European support then they should be now.

 

[G7HID]

I did receive 2 further emails:

Dear Mike
Uniden answer:
In case of simplex DMR, please adjust to work well with digital threshold mode and modulation like below.
Digital threshold mode: manual
Threshold value: 5 to 8, depend on environment
Modulation: FM
Please check and we look forward to receive your comments

Dear Mike
Answer from Uniden engineer.
Also, did he change modulation from Auto to FM?
I had known this issue, so I had improved US model in Oct. last year.
After that I have got many comments from users that it works fine.
This modification has been included to UBCD3600XLT.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

The above advised settings made little or no difference and appropriate comments sent..

Mike

 

[UPMan]

As to Close Call: It will never work on simplex. The 30 mS duty cycle prevents the scanner from seeing the simplex DMR as a coherent signal.

As to just receiving/decoding simplex: I get 80-90% decode on simplex with the above settings (FM, MAN 8). Due to the 30 mS duty cycle, 100% isn't possible.

 

[EuropeanUser]

This might give you a feel for the technical expertise of our support contact:
...

Not sure what you understand by simplex DMR
Can you give information about this,
what standard is this?
what brand type, is using this?
what kind of users/ aplication ?

Geez, that's the competence level you want from the official support of radio equipment... Looks like 436HP is the way to go even though it's likely to be more expensive. Given that customs will even let it through due to the lack of CE certification.

 

[G7HID]

Ah UPMan, I appeciate your input but do not see the same improvements as you..
Are there any firmware upgrade due for the 3600 ??
Seeing that improvements have been made to the 436:

Support hang time after voice termination in trunking DMR systems
Support private voice grant message in Capacity Plus
Added display of decode status during audio replay
Improved the reception sensitivity of all digital systems
Speed up scanning of DMR systems
Support RAS detection in Tier 3 (including Capacity MAX) and DMR One Frequency systems
Fixed the issue of P25 band plan
Modified to not displaying "LNK" by receiving terminator in staying on P25 control channel
Fixed the issue of displaying false DMR TGID
Modified detection criteria of encryption in Capacity Plus
Strengthen tracking of voice slots in DMR One Frequency systems
Added recovery processing for the missing of avoided TGID in DMR One Frequency systems
Modified judgement criteria for Hytera XPT

Mike

 

[EuropeanUser]

Support hang time after voice termination in trunking DMR systems
Speed up scanning of DMR systems
Support RAS detection in Tier 3 (including Capacity MAX) and DMR One Frequency systems

These are the improvements that are most significant to me as most systems around here are Tier 3 capacity plus with mixed encrypted/unencrypted.

Long shot here, and I'm pretty sure I already know the answer, but any chance the 436HP firmware can be installed on the 3600XLT?

Giving up EU consumer rights and paying more with the risk of hassles with custom just to get basically the same device with updated firmware just isn't an optimal solution. I'm sure there's a reason that the 436HP was replaced with the 3600XLT for Europe but I wish it wasn't.

 

[UPMan]

I do not know Uniden Europe's plans for updates on their version products. As to cross-applying the firmware, it is not possible.

 

[Valeriy]

Geez, that's the competence level you want from the official support of radio equipment... Looks like 436HP is the way to go even though it's likely to be more expensive. Given that customs will even let it through due to the lack of CE certification.

The lack of CE certification isn't an issue at all: even the Italians allowed my 436 to get into the Union, go figure...
The big issue has been the Customs duty, instead: more than 30% of the value of the parcel, so I had to pay them about USD 185, a true theft.
I don't know if the UK has such a thing as Customs duties, of course.

 

[pb_lonny]

I would LOVE for Uniden Australia to add DMR and offer firmware updates, I doubt it will happen...

 

[EuropeanUser]

The lack of CE certification isn't an issue at all: even the Italians allowed my 436 to get into the Union, go figure...
The big issue has been the Customs duty, instead: more than 30% of the value of the parcel, so I had to pay them about USD 185, a true theft.
I don't know if the UK has such a thing as Customs duties, of course.

I'm not it the UK but I have checked and it will cost me about 520 EUR including all customs fees and shipping plus the cost of the DMR upgrade. The 3600XLT is the same price but includes DMR to begin with.

I just found out about the BCD325P2 and the fact that it had a DMR upgrade available. That's a cheaper option, and smaller, but probably not as good for DMR.

To be honest I find it weird that Uniden Europe is responsible for firmware updates. It would make sense that the same dev team develops firmware for all similar models, at least for basic functionality and then region specific things could be added on top of that. If Uniden Europe have to spend the money to develop firmware I think we're screwed.

Although if I import and it breaks I'm screwed as well (thinking about the RTC battery issues). With the 3600XLT I'd at least have warranty here.

 

[G7HID]

I do not know Uniden Europe's plans for updates on their version products....

Have you got a contact for Uniden Europe ? I was under the impression they do not exist !!

Mike

 

[Minus1]

We shouldn't be too surprised that Uniden don't properly support customers outside of the US & Canada on firmware upgrades.

They don't even bother to make some basic functions adjustable for countries outside the US.

* Service type names ("EMS", "Federal", "Railroad", "Custom #" could all easily be editable in software)
* Default bandplan frequency ranges, step & modulation (Easily done by software)
* Repeater reverse function (Easily done in software, yet the function is currently useless outside the US)

In hardware, a narrow AM bandwidth would be very useful for VHF airband 8.33 kHz channels. This would require changes at the hardware design stage, but it was introduced in Europe nearly TWENTY years ago, so why haven't new models got it? It would also be better in the US for CB radio channels.

 

[mule1075]

We shouldn't be too surprised that Uniden don't properly support customers outside of the US & Canada on firmware upgrades.

They don't even bother to make some basic functions adjustable for countries outside the US.

* Service type names ("EMS", "Federal", "Railroad", "Custom #" could all easily be editable in software)
* Default bandplan frequency ranges, step & modulation (Easily done by software)
* Repeater reverse function (Easily done in software, yet the function is currently useless outside the US)

In hardware, a narrow AM bandwidth would be very useful for VHF airband 8.33 kHz channels. This would require changes at the hardware design stage, but it was introduced in Europe nearly TWENTY years ago, so why haven't new models got it? It would also be better in the US for CB radio channels.

Why don't you contact Uniden Europe with your concerns.

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