UNDERSTANDING RAILROAD COMMS

[Colin9690]

Hi,

Are there any rail comms enthusiasts out there that can point me to a site or explain to me what some of the terms? Like road freqs, yard freqs, switching freqs, etc. Also, do they use repeaters, or is it simplex?

Thanks!

 

[mciupa]

Might be worth joining this forum and ask these guys :idea:

http://forums.railfan.net/

 

[Mike-KC8OWL]

For the most part, the railroad freq.'s are simplex, but I think that there is a lot of linking on the systems (i.e. terminal or dispatch freq.'s that are linked across longer distances).

I live near CSX and NS in the Cleveland, Ohio area and for the most part, comm's are plain english.

Real High-level stuff you'll hear:

* Trains need signals to pass into a blocks
* Blocks are sections of track
* You'll probably hear automated axle counters, dragging equipment detectors, and high-wide detectors.
* If you live near a yard you'll hear them 'shovng' cars into specific tracks on the yard

See this web site for an example of how CSX trains are numbered and what the numbers mean http://www.alabamarailfan.com/csx-train-ids.php

Good luck -

Mike KC8OWL

 

[INDY72]

On 90% of the Railcorps out there, road coms are simplex/duplex with a very few using repeaters. Yard coms could iether do the same thing, or be on the newest craze, which is Trunked Radio! Note that the changover to digital comms has begun, and some rail security/police ops are encrypted. Many of the States listed in the DB here have great rail info listed.... There are plans for a couple of the big railcorps to add digital TRS's along thier trackage... but being that this could be extremely expensive,.. most will just set up TRS's for thier yards, or intermodal facilities.

 

[Colin9690]

Thanks guys! I'll check out that web site too.

 

[Colin9690]

I'm sorry, I should have put this in the Ohio Forum, but judging by the OHIO railroad freqs, can anyone tell which frequency is the Main freq in use in Columbus?

Sorry, i'm just getting into rail comms.

 

[Mike-KC8OWL]

The best thing to do if you don't know the local frequencies is to search 160.000 to 162.000. If theirs rail action, you will find it in that 2MHz space.

Mike KC8OWL

 

[Colin9690]

Thanks guys!

 

[PJH]

Depending on the road and your location...

CSXT - CSX Transportation calls their dispatchers by a two digit alpha....such as the NA Dispatcher, BC dispatcher etc. Its by location. Trains are known by their "Train Symbol". As an example, a CSX automotive train may be known as Q264 (when you break it down is somewhere Ohio ((I think)) to Boston Ma.

NS - Norfolk Southern has a similar setup in which their trains may be known as 12T, 54A etc.

UP - Union Pacific and BNSF - Burlington Nothern Santa Fe use alpha codes with a train type... Such as M-SADSAF - Merchanside train San Diego to San Fransico. On the radio they dispatchers commonly refer to the trains by the first engine number and direction...ie: UP3985 East. That beat spelling out all those letters, but you may still hear the symbol time to time. UP calls their dispatchers by number (DS58 works the Bakersfield Area). I think BNSF still uses district names... such as "Cajon Dispatcher" for that Cajon subdivision.

Most comms are simplex both way...road and yards. This very's by location and old railroad pracitices from previously merged railroads. For example, CSX down MD, DC etc use to to be the Baltimore & Ohio. Most radio channels were semi duplex... Trains called the dispatcher on channel 49 and the dispatcher called the trains on Channel 51.

CSX here in New England bought out part of Conrail. Conrail used 4 basic simplex channels system wide. CSX (and NS) still use the old Conrail channels. Most of the railroads still operate their radio channels the same was as the merged companies did. In some places they convert, but usually not.

Now... as stated above, you may hear things on the road channels which are called defect detectors. Most only check one safety aspect of the train. You have:

Hotbox detectors (HBD)...which essentially check the wheel bearing for overheating.

High car/high-wide detectors which makes sure that a car can clear an obstruction down the line (bridge, tunnel etc)

There are several others, but on the radio you will hear something like:

"UP Detector, mile post xxx (or town/railroad location name) No defects, total axle count xxx over". The verbage will be different between railroads, and even on the same line.

Oh, and before anyone gets bent out of shape, the above train stuff above were examples only..so don't get huffy puffy because a train symbol was wrong! :twisted:

 

[Chris-M]

EOT data

Is it possible to decode the EOT data on 452.9375MHz and 457.9375MHz, similar to how ACARS data can be decoded with software and a PC soundcard?
Or is the railroad EOT data encrypted or scrambled?

 

[PJH]

Yes! However, you need the ATCS monitoring software to do it. You don't see anything earth shattering. BP, EOT unit number and I think one other thing you get. Usually its a pain in the ass to get it working right.

Other than that, I haven't seen any other program out there to decode it.

 

[STiMULi]

During the recent train accident in S.C. besides expected public service transmissions from the local agencies what kind or railroad traffic would have been expected from RR freqs that were related to the accident clean-up and repair?

Would the RR agencies have been directly involved in any first aid based on thier protocol? Do RR agencies have HAZMAT teams?

 

[INDY72]

Some Railcorps do have FF teams and HazMat teams.... In regards to recovery of Equipment, and rail repair,.. you will find a lot of the chatter on not only the primary/secondary ops chans,.. but also may find action on the other listed freqs, where there is no action otherwise.....

Some of the little used freqs are specifically set aside for "Work Trains", repair teams... salvge crews etc.... If you are near a derail, and your lucky eneough to be in a non dangerous situation.. monitor all the unid'ed freqs closely as well as the "police/security" and primary road freqs closely.

 

[poltergeisty]

Hey this is a cool subject. I have wondered. How many watts do the trains use? And also a airline. I can hear them real well with just a ruber duck. (Why do they call it a ruber duck?) And does amtrack use the same frequency channels?

 

[INDY72]

Locomotive mobiles as well as the mobiles in the staff vehicles are just like the mobiles in a patrol car..... They can be set up for anything from 45 watts, to 110 watts TX....

The ants on most locos are directional beam ants sending the majority of thier signal front and rear.... though there are a few set up vertically. If your within say 10 miles to the front of a loco... you will be able to get a pretty good signal on a HH's duckie. Of course, just like with other simplex type coms, youll hear dispatch from a lot farther off..... And just like for conventional PS and business comms, if a repeater set up is uesed, youll catch the full comms much better....

*One key difference in rail comms is that its EXTREMELY rare to ever see an mobile extender set up for a loco....though a few of them are used on the "rail trucks" for extending HT range.*

*Another fun thing for those into rail comms is "Train chasing".. this is usually done for photo/video ops to get the best places. But there are a couple of us that do this with scanners as a hobby, to not only test the effectiveness of our gear, but to also get the best vantage points at crossings, yards, etc.*

 

[INDY72]

Oh and Yes AMTRAK uses the freqs of the main lines they traverse.... If an Amtrak liner runs on say a UP controlled trackage, they communicate on the assigned main road chans for UP....same with CN-IC, etc.... the only difference would be some of the on board security/police for Amtrak have thier own freqs, as do on board staff..... A few of these now use seperate business stuff, or even FRS/GMRS stuff. And worst of it is the ones running Nextel....thus ensuring that you can't hear em.

 

[radioscan]

For complete railfan information for the Columbus area check out
Tom Swisher's webpage:

http://www.qsl.net/wa8pyr/railfan.htm



Mark

 

[poltergeisty]

Al right thanks alot milf. I have to go to that site that was mentioned here and read up on the lexicon that they use because it is hard to understand just exactly what they are saying. Such as switch track blah blah. check point something or other.

 

[hulka]

Does anyone know of any groups out there for the Phoenix area in Az?

Kevin

 

[PJH]

American Locomotive radio's transmit no higher that 45 watts. The vast majority of cab radios are Motorola Railroad Spectras with have 45 watt PA decks. The Canadian verison top off at 35 or 40 (possibly 30, I forget). These radio's are setup to run on 72vDC or 12vDC and have a different head and case, and do not scan. Other than that, just the firmware is different than the typical spectra. These do not scan, and you cannot make them scan. There are a couple of other manufactures out there, but most crews hate them, such as the aerotron radio's. Here is a pic of the spectra:

I have yet to see a hi-rail truck equipped with a PAC-RT or similar repeater/extender...basically because in-band setups desense the other radio.

Depending on the vintage and railroad buyer, you will see several typed of antenna's on the loco's.

You have what is called the "firecracker" antenna which is a little subby antenna that looks like an upside down fire cracker. An example:

Then you have the "ice skate" antenna which looks like an ice skate and is forward directional. Not the best pic, but you get the idea. I have a closeup shot at home on my server if you really want to see it:

And, you have the typical whip antenna. On the newer loco's, you will have a radio dome which contains a GPS antenna, loco radio, UHF-800-900 antenna's for remote loco control, ATCS and anything else that it was ordered with. Example: