Uniden X36 Simulcast Performance Thread

[AZScanner]

So what's the verdict here folks? In the P25 9600 multi-site simulcast hellholes - without a yagi antenna - which unit is better: GRE500, 536HP, or another GRE unit? (or wait for yet another round?)
All I know for sure is that using an 800MHz yagi, I cannot receive a CQPSK simulcast system using a (*@!^&*#) PRO-96!

I think the verdict is "it depends".

It depends on your particular area's radio systems. Some seem to work better than others. Some users are reporting that the scanner works perfectly on their simulcast systems. Others, like me, report a big improvement but still not perfect. Still others say it doesn't work any better than previous scanners, and a few have even chimed in to say it's worse.

It depends on where you use the scanner. Some folks are able to use their scanner all over the place, others have to leave the scanner in a special "sweet spot" in their house or office in order to get it to work.

It depends on what type of antenna you have connected. Some use the stock one, some (like me) use the RS 800 antenna, others use a Yagi, etc.

It depends on other unseen outside forces, such as cloud cover, leaves on trees, wind speed and direction (no seriously, due to tree leaves sometimes playing havoc with 800MHz frequencies, the wind can even be a factor). Solar flares, nearby cell phone towers, etc.

The days of plain old "it works everywhere" analog are over. As such, anyone contemplating the purchase of a digital scanner would do well to research the unit and also research how well it works for others in their area. There's no hard and fast answers here. It works for some, not for others, and there's so many factors in play that it's difficult to say for those who are having a problem if it's the scanner or something else causing the problem.

I can only speak for myself and what the results were for me. This scanner has given me my hobby back (as well as a potential source of secondary income shooting news stories that I once enjoyed before all this digital nonsense came to be). The system I primarily monitor for news gathering was all but unmonitorable unless you kept the scanner in a fixed location with a directional antenna that needed constant adjusting for optimal performance. I'd say based on that, along with everything I posted above, the unit is worth looking at if what you already have in your arsenal isn't getting the job done, as was the case for me.

I'll of course be interested in seeing what Whistler comes out with, but to be honest I'd be shocked if their new scanners work any better than this one does (again, for ME - your mileage may vary).

-AZ

 

[dispatcher812]

I just can't figure it out. I LOVE this scanner but the way it decodes is frustrating. For example, I go to College about 90 minutes from home. I cross over 4 different Connecticut State Police Troop territories. I have all the troops programed in my scanner with GPS coordinates so they come on and off as I drive. Monday night from 2100-2230 I heard 1 transmission. One in 90 minutes. Last night during my 20 minutes ride home from work, the scanner was non-stop for the CSP. I could understand if I am missing transmissions due to other activity but I am not scanning a lot of other stuff at this time. And even when it did decode, there where a lot of garbled transmissions.

 

[kaiserfan]

I just can't figure it out. I LOVE this scanner but the way it decodes is frustrating. For example, I go to College about 90 minutes from home. I cross over 4 different Connecticut State Police Troop territories. I have all the troops programed in my scanner with GPS coordinates so they come on and off as I drive. Monday night from 2100-2230 I heard 1 transmission. One in 90 minutes. Last night during my 20 minutes ride home from work, the scanner was non-stop for the CSP. I could understand if I am missing transmissions due to other activity but I am not scanning a lot of other stuff at this time. And even when it did decode, there where a lot of garbled transmissions.

Because it's like all Uniden Scanners it works when it wants to and when it dosen't theres nothing you can do about it

 

[PiccoIntegra]

Because it's like all Uniden Scanners it works when it wants to and when it dosen't theres nothing you can do about it

The decoding problems for digital simulcast systems aren't unique to Uniden scanners. Don't think for one second that GRE/Whistler scanners didn't/won't have the same issues. This will never change until one or the other decide to actually redesign their radios.

All digital demodulation schemes will require their own filtering. C4FM, CQPSK, LSM, Phase II.. Read this PDF file on page 253 for the gory details.

GRE almost had it right by using a dedicated DSP chip. Their mistake was sampling the signal after it has already been through the mixer(s). You can't reliably recover symbols from a mangled waveform. There is no amount of DSP power that can pull that off.

All Unidens use CPUs with DSP capabilities, big difference. Do you want to know how these new X36 radios are dealing with the problem now?

Uniden introduced squelch tables for each modulation. NFM, FM, AM, WFM/FMB, and Digital. Each one has 20 suspected RSSI values(min and max) in which the radio need to hold the squelch open given these RSSI ranges. I say "suspected RSSI" because it isn't yet confirmed these aren't some other 10bit ADC values. In due time though.. The radio's squelch setting(0-19) is tied to these table indexes. So instead of their recommended "Set squelch to 0" in previous models, they're now taking care of this in software, based on what your squelch setting is set to. So at least you'll be able to scan your analog system now that the squelch isn't always set to 0. These settings were probably the cause of the annoying squelch tail issue people were complaining about before the update.

I knew something was up when watching videos posted of the new radios here on the forums. It's clear by watching the RSSI meter scale up and down on the LCD.

It baffles me that they are so gung-ho to fix everything that's wrong with these new radios, but continue to ignore the digital decoding hacks they introduce model after model. Fixing this won't make these scanners cost $2000 like many here think they will, so I don't want to hear that argument. Everyone thinks we need professional grade hardware... horse ****. I have a $10 DVB dongle that says otherwise.

"YMMV" isn't good enough anymore. Get back to basics, cut the fluff crap and fix it already!

 

[whsbuss]

The decoding problems for digital simulcast systems aren't unique to Uniden scanners. Don't think for one second that GRE/Whistler scanners didn't/won't have the same issues. This will never change until one or the other decide to actually redesign their radios.

All digital demodulation schemes will require their own filtering. C4FM, CQPSK, LSM, Phase II.. Read this PDF file on page 253 for the gory details.

GRE almost had it right by using a dedicated DSP chip. Their mistake was sampling the signal after it has already been through the mixer(s). You can't reliably recover symbols from a mangled waveform. There is no amount of DSP power that can pull that off.

All Unidens use CPUs with DSP capabilities, big difference. Do you want to know how these new X36 radios are dealing with the problem now?

Uniden introduced squelch tables for each modulation. NFM, FM, AM, WFM/FMB, and Digital. Each one has 20 suspected RSSI values(min and max) in which the radio need to hold the squelch open given these RSSI ranges. I say "suspected RSSI" because it isn't yet confirmed these aren't some other 10bit ADC values. In due time though.. The radio's squelch setting(0-19) is tied to these table indexes. So instead of their recommended "Set squelch to 0" in previous models, they're now taking care of this in software, based on what your squelch setting is set to. So at least you'll be able to scan your analog system now that the squelch isn't always set to 0. These settings were probably the cause of the annoying squelch tail issue people were complaining about before the update.

I knew something was up when watching videos posted of the new radios here on the forums. It's clear by watching the RSSI meter scale up and down on the LCD.

It baffles me that they are so gung-ho to fix everything that's wrong with these new radios, but continue to ignore the digital decoding hacks they introduce model after model. Fixing this won't make these scanners cost $2000 like many here think they will, so I don't want to hear that argument. Everyone thinks we need professional grade hardware... horse ****. I have a $10 DVB dongle that says otherwise.

"YMMV" isn't good enough anymore. Get back to basics, cut the fluff crap and fix it already!

Great supposition. Well maybe Whistler can fix their mistake on the dedicated DSP chip and get the decoding correct.

 

[akolusk]

Just got my 536 yesterday I live in western wayne county MI put in new firmware and listening to p25 simulcast have not heard 1 full transmission yet. hard to believe very disapointed
I ll be sending this back monday

 

[whsbuss]

Just got my 536 yesterday I live in western wayne county MI put in new firmware and listening to p25 simulcast have not heard 1 full transmission yet. hard to believe very disapointed
I ll be sending this back monday

Well since you have the rest of the weekend, why not try some of the settings mentioned in the forum? One of the sticky's from UPMan is P25 Test Decode which changes NFM to FM. Then there are P25 settings; threshold, hold time. They may help.

 

[SCPD]

Just got my 536 yesterday I live in western wayne county MI put in new firmware and listening to p25 simulcast have not heard 1 full transmission yet. hard to believe very disapointed
I ll be sending this back monday

Have you turned on all the Service Types?

 

[akolusk]

Yes I have tried everything that was mentioned on this forum nothing makes any difference at all.
Its pretty much useless in wayne count mi.

 

[SCPD]

Do you hear anything ?
Did you Scan the full Database with your Zip code?
IF you look at the Database here Wayne County, Michigan (MI) Scanner Frequencies and Radio Frequency Reference
Michigan's Public Safety Communications System (MPSCS) anything with an E = encrypted
And you can't Monitor that.

 

[Forts]

Are you listening to the new Western Wayne system or MPSCS? That Wayne system seems to be troublesome in general....

 

[akolusk]

YES I AM

 

[akolusk]

I am picking up almost everthing but 3 or 4 words stops starts again ems when it beeps it stops before all the beeps get out plate num dont hear all the numbers cuts out i ,m only doing simulcast
it always comes back on but hard to tell whats realy going on every 4 seconds or so

 

[whsbuss]

I am picking up almost everthing but 3 or 4 words stops starts again ems when it beeps it stops before all the beeps get out plate num dont hear all the numbers cuts out i ,m only doing simulcast
it always comes back on but hard to tell whats realy going on every 4 seconds or so

Check to ensure you don't have any channel/TGID priority set.

 

[Forts]

There is something odd about that Wayne system.... It's not just you.

 

[SCPD]

Sometimes no receiver will work reliably as it's the nature of the beast of simulcast systems. Sometimes even the pro radios have difficulty from time to time. I know it sucks and frustrating, but hey it's keeps you busy trying different things to make it work. Try standing on your head holding the scanner, for some of us it's the last hope. Good luck..

 

[bchappuie]

Got my 536 on Monday. Here in Kansas City area, simulcast is great. Much better than my PSR 500.

 

[johnnyelectron]

Johnson County KS side or Misery side of the river? What are you using for your antenna? What system? Thanks!

 

[bchappuie]

Johnson County. All systems. KSICS, and MARRS. Using antenna that came with the unit un-extended.
I'm in east Olathe. Supriseing the KCMO system comes in pretty good here also. Much better overall performance than the GRE. The ears on this Uniden seem a bit better. Haven't thrown Independece into the mix just yet. I need to get one of the MOSWIN site in and see if I hear it.

 

[mgolden2]

Try the Dearborn site and the Independence site for MOSWIN. Those both have great coverage and a fair amount of traffic.

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