UPMan: Modded Scanner Needs Uniden Repair Service.

[jonwienke]

It's been over a year, but it's finally happened. One of my customers that had a GPS installed in his HP-2 dropped it, and while the GPS still gets a satellite lock and the unit scans the appropriate systems based on the GPS location, it doesn't receive anything, despite the owner having tried multiple antennas. The owner would like me to take a look at it, but unless it's a visually detectable problem like a broken solder joint between the antenna connector and circuit board, it's probably going to have to go to Uniden for repair.

If the problem does prove to be something Uniden has to fix, is there any way to persuade the repair tech to leave the GPS mod in place when the repair is made?

 

[scosgt]

Sounds like you have two questions here:
1. Will they work on a modified scanner at all.
2. If they will, are they going to just say they had to replace that board and there goes the mod.

Sounds like he may have opened up an antenna connection, which should be a simple fix.

 

[jonwienke]

I hope that is the case.

The GPS is glued into a cutout in the case, with wires going to the applicable spots on the circuit boards. So the GPS wires would have to be desoldered to replace the board, but the case would have to be changed out to get rid of the GPS module entirely.

 

[scosgt]

I hope that is the case.

The GPS is glued into a cutout in the case, with wires going to the applicable spots on the circuit boards. So the GPS wires would have to be desoldered to replace the board, but the case would have to be changed out to get rid of the GPS module entirely.

I have a suspicion they will refuse to work on it.

 

[RRR]

Would have been so much easier and user friendly for Uniden to have put a GPS unit inside the scanners in the first place. The mod itself (without labor) is about $40, I'm sure they could have done it in mass production for much less.

 

[UPMan]

Hobbiests are free to do a lot of things that manufacturers cannot do. I personally think this is a neat mod (but am not willing to up the retail price even more to include it for everyone whether they will use it or not). But, as a hobbiest, if you personally do this mod on your own scanner, you don't have to file for a permissive change with the FCC. You are, however, still held responsible if the mod causes interference and is found to be outside the limits for a Part 15 device or otherwise does not meet FCC rules for scanners (for example, if you figured out a way to modify the product to receive cellular and were caught, you could be at the receiving end of an FCC action)..

Actually, Jon is considered a manufacturer (in the eyes of the FCC) and his product is the combined scanner/GPS. He is responsible for FCC compliance and filing for a FCC grant for this modded product (but I seriously doubt that the FCC would care about such a small-scale and essentially hobbiest enterprise).

Technically, if the unit were to cause interference to other devices (I know this is an almost 0% probability for this mod), Jon could be on the hook for fixing the issue.

All that said, when it is sent to Uniden for repair, if there is evidence of the unit having been opened for any reason, the warranty is voided. This is true for every product we sell (and generally true for most electronic products anyone else sells). If there is no such evidence, then the warranty status would depend on the nature of the failure (just like any product from any other company).

If it comes in with the mod in place, the repair will be out of warranty, regardless of the nature of the repair, and we have to disconnect the mod. We have to do this because we are responsible for ensuring that the unit complies with the FCC grant and we can only do that by restoring the unit to factory condition. We can leave the mod physically in place (i.e. glued into the back cabinet), but when it is returned, it will be electrically disconnected from the scanner.

We can't be responsible for the GPS module itself. We wouldn't intentionally damage it, but if it were inadvertently damaged during repair, we would not be responsible for such damage (we likely would have no way to detect such damage in any event). So, the safest thing would be to have the mod carefully removed prior to sending it in for repair, then re-applied after it is returned from repair. This will not preserve the warranty (big hole in the back cabinet would be a pretty good clue that it had been opened), but it will ensure that all parts are returned in a usable state.

 

[UPMan]

I'll add that we have actual experience with this issue from the 80's. Gray Enterprises took one of our scanners and modded it into a CHiPS detector. They actually did go through the steps of getting an FCC Grant for the modified product, and sold thousands before we licensed the technology from them (Beartracker Warning System) and incorporated it into some of our scanner designs.

 

[jonwienke]

Thank you for the reply.

It's pretty much what I expected, and I understand the reasons (legal and business) why.

Technically, if the unit were to cause interference to other devices (I know this is an almost 0% probability for this mod), Jon could be on the hook for fixing the issue.

RFI is definitely something I've had to deal with, and I've done considerable testing and engineering to ensure that RFI isn't an issue after I've modded a scanner. If the GPS is causing RFI, then the scanner reception performance is negatively affected, which is obviously a bad thing. One of the main reasons I use the Reyax modules is because they emit no detectable RFI, unlike pretty much every other brand of module I've tried.

I have a SDR dongle I use on an extension cord with a stubby antenna to sniff for RFI, and also do before and after testing to make sure the GPS install didn't break anything. I also use a toroid on the GPS wire harness to form a common-mode choke to prevent interference.

My main motivation isn't keeping the FCC off my back, it's ensuring that the mods I do don't compromise the functionality of the scanner to any measurable extent. Having an internal GPS isn't a good thing if it screws up reception.

 

[Pezking]

All that said, when it is sent to Uniden for repair, if there is evidence of the unit having been opened for any reason, the warranty is voided.

That policy violates the 1975 Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act.

 

[TailGator911]

Years ago I had a Pro-2006 that was totally Cheeks modified (EL panel modded for brightness, Audio discriminator tap, LED S-meter (agc) and a patch panel installed) . This mod involved moving the battery housing. It stopped receiving and I sent it in to Radio Shack/Tandy and they sent me a letter (from Ft Worth) stating that the mod voided the warranty and unless I reversed the mod and sent it in again, they would not even look at it. I had someone else fix it (a whopping $35 )and was done with it. As UPMan stated, most all manufacturers will not even look at their product (for repairs) that have been modified in any way. That's why they usually put it in writing.

 

[UPMan]

That policy violates the 1975 Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act.

Citation, please?

The law requires that we (Title 15, Chapter 20, Section 2304, Paragraph (a)(2)"...may not exclude or limit consequential damages for a breach of any written or implied warranty on the product, unless the exclusion or limitation conspicuously appears on the face of the warranty."

The warranty statement clearly says "The warranty is invalid if the Product is (A) damaged or not maintained as reasonable or necessary, (B) modified, altered, or used as part of any conversion kits, subassemblies, or any configurations not sold by Uniden, (C) improperly installed, (D) serviced or repaired by someone other than an authorized Uniden service center for a defect or malfunction covered by this warranty, (E) used in any conjunction with equipment or parts or as part of any system not manufactured by Uniden, or (F) installed or programmed by anyone other than as detailed by the Operating Guide for this product."

 

[Blunt630]

That's why companies hire lawyers. To protect the company. Good luck

 

[Pezking]

You can't even cite that in your own warranty, Paul.

Nowhere in the text that you just copy and pasted does it state that the warranty is void if the product is opened for any reason.

The Federal Trade Commission disagrees with your interpretation of the law.
https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/pre...panies-it-illegal-condition-warranty-coverage

 

[UPMan]

As there is no legitimate reason to remove the back cabinet from the scanner other than for repair or modification, opening the case is prima facie evidence of such activity.

Of course you'd have to be pretty inept with a screwdriver to remove the case and replace it while doing nothing else to the unit to leave any evidence that it had been opened. Usually the evidence is much more obvious. If all you did was remove/replace the cabinet (absence such ineptitude), the likelihood of our tech being able to know that becomes almost 0% and so a moot point.

 

[scosgt]

Lets keep it simple:
You do NOT have to go back to the car dealer to have your oil changed.
You do NOT have to use a Uniden antenna on your Uniden scanner.
If you install a tow hitch on a car not rated for towing and with no provision to mount a hitch, and your transmission burns out or suspension collapses, good luck with a warranty claim.

 

[jonwienke]

Of course you'd have to be pretty inept with a screwdriver to remove the case and replace it while doing nothing else to the unit to leave any evidence that it had been opened. Usually the evidence is much more obvious.

Like a 1" square hole cut into the back of the case?

 

[RRR]

Totally unrelated, ....But can I buy a replacement back case for my SDS100?

 

[seth21w]

Jon the best course of action would probably be to have your customer send you the modified scanner, to re solder the antenna connection yourself.

 

[jonwienke]

I agree. I'm going to look at the unit and fix it myself if I can, but without seeing the inside of the unit, I can't know for sure whether it's something like a broken solder joint on the antenna connector. I just wanted to know exactly what will happen if I have to forward the unit on to Uniden.

 

[Mojomanny]

Going in another direction ...

I would like to thank UPman for a clear, concise and reasonable answer. Having been modding scanners since the early days of Dr. Rigormortis (aka Bill Cheeks), I appreciate that Uniden will not refuse to work on a modded unit or do anything to intentionally disable the mod.

The way I see it, if I bring my lawn tractor to a dealers shop for repairs, knowing I disabled the safety switch that would shut off the engine if I put it in reverse with the engine. I expect when I get the tractor back the switch re-enabled. They have an implicit and/or explicit obligation to ensure all safety devices are working. If they returned it disabled and if I got injured, they would face liability.