Use Of Fire Station Sirens

[Adamwalsh627]

I am curious what others in this forum have to say about fire station sirens. I strongly agree that they should be used no matter what residents think. People complain they are annoying, wake up the kids and people sleeping, this isn't the 1800's, everyone has pagers, etc. The fact is that for every call a fire station does have for the most part, the guys blow the sirens and horns with the trucks no matter the time of night, so what matters if it is a vehicle siren or a station siren? Sometimes volunteers are outside without their radio, and plus it kinda lets the neighbors aware that emergency traffic will be coming through shortly.

I still am baffled to why agencies don't use their noon on Sunday's. It's a joke.

Should the siren not go at all, go 24/7 or like 7a-10p?

However, I feel that sometimes the siren gets abused. If there is one call already and more come in within a short period, why keep setting it off??? Also, when departments don't respond to their first tone out, why keep setting it off a second and third, so forth? Remember, if someone doesn't have their radio or pager, you only need 1 activation of the siren, because no matter how many tone outs, it won't matter!

Please give me some feedback

Adam

 

[kmacinct]

I'll bite;

We dispatch for seven towns. All towns policy is 0700 to 2100. There is a little discretion such as a psych, or routine call at 0701 hours in the morning. There has been chatter about policy for sounding the siren after hours for significant events, and "Very" significant weather incidents (Tornado - get the public attention) . It get's people to listen to their scanners, or tune in the TV, check their smart apps.

Activated one per call - i.e. we dont sound it every retone for a crew etc.


ISO Survey includes "Fire Alarm" survey - they are impressed with redundant, simple systems. Siren activation is very simple and covers a large area easily. Last survey I was involved in, they didnt care much for smart-apps and cellular texting.
https://firechief.iso.com/FCWWeb/mitigation/ppc/5000/ppc5004.jsp


NFPA 1221 also looks for redundant systems.\


It's old technology, but it works, and keeps working. I have caught a few calls because I was outside without a pager (or smart device).

 

[cavmedic]

I have ours setup on a time of day timer and a one shot timer.

It only sounds between 0600 and 2200 and for 45 seconds. ( 4 cycles ) No need for the full 2 minute duration.

It is just enough to let the people approaching or close by know there will be emergency vehicle traffic but enough to not piss off the neighbors or my wife. After all , all my pagers do a great job of that. Plus it lets the locals know that their fire tax is being put to use. And it is also is a great recruiting tool for people new to the area.

I bought a house directly across the street from a station. At the time, i was not active in Emergency Services as I was taking about an 8 year break,but the first question I had the Realtor ask was about the siren, and found out it was actually non functional.

You could imagine the look on their faces when the new neighbor brought in an electrician to fix it for them............. ( turned out to be a bad motor contactor )

 

[W8RMH]

I been around station sirens for 40+ years and never heard a complaint about them. We did have a lady who lived next to the station who complained about using vehicle sirens when entering the highway.

The mayor told us not to use sirens until we were on the highway and away from her home. It did slow us down somewhat and create a safety concern. If everyone didn't like the sirens why use them at all or even make emergency runs. This is a fact of life....if you don't like it move.

 

[captncarp]

Fire Station Sirens

Station sirens are a waste. No volunteer would be caught without his scanner or W/T.
My city did away with them in the 1960's and nobody ever missed them. Only a small percentage of firefighters live or work within sound of them anyway. They are kept more for there publicity value than there response value.

 

[BoxAlarm187]

My VFD used a house siren from it's inception until the late 1990's. As the population began moving to our area from the city, we saw an increase in population, and made the decision to only have the siren blow for fire calls and no EMS calls. Then we further limited it's use to 0700-2100 hours.

When the siren was struck by lightning in the late 90's, we elected to get it fixed in a 13-to-12 vote. Because of the installation, it had to be removed and lowered to the ground to be repaired. Unfortunately, or unfortunately (depending on your viewpoint), the repair company dropped it 40' to the ground and broke it into a number of pieces. That was the last time a house siren was discussed at our firehouse.

House sirens are, for the most part, a thing of the past within 50 miles of my home - and have been for many years. With Minitor pagers, alpha-paging, text-messaging, and other redundant means of alerting the volunteers, we can still meet the intent of NFPA 1221 and maintain our home-response needs.

They're cool and nostalgic, but I'm not convinced they're still "necessary" in this day and age.

 

[DJ11DLN]

Hardly used at all in my neck of the woods these days. Ours has been gone since the last time it quit and we were told it was "absolutely un-fixable." We have pretty decent pager coverage, also cellular notification, and I don't think it would be used for fire notification even if we still had it...but I wish it was still there, both because I miss hearing it go off and also because they are easy to convert to pager-activated tornado sirens. Other dep'ts around here pretty much the same, seems as if they either use them for the latter or else they are just sitting there, maybe fired up once or twice a year, maybe just rusting away.

 

[georged4997]

Sirens

Its annoying and a waste of electricity. I worked on the fire Dept in a Large City, And if one of them sounded everytime we went out. We would have a riot on are hands.I moved up state joined a vol
Fire Dept for a while. There was pagers, Home phones , cell phones, Plectrons. Scanners.
This aint the 1920s or 30s with farmers out in the fields. Since I moved away from the city upstate.
I notice at times in the middle of the night , retoning and hearing the air raid siren go off a second
time. The answer most people get when asked about the air raid siren. (we want to let the people
know were going out).

 

[buddrousa]

They make nice community warning systems to worn of storms or other dangers.

 

[MrAntiDigital]

I'll bite on this too. Welcome to the 21st Century.

America landed on the moon back in July,1969. That's probably around the time when everybody should have gotten rid of those fire station sirens.

I've had a police/fire scanner from around that time (1969). I knew when EVERY fire call came in and exactly where it was. Not just for one town, but for other cities and towns miles away. Yet, as long as I had that scanner on - in my house, in my car and even in my pocket, "I didn't miss a call".

Fast forward another 20 or 30 years. Along comes pagers. Everybody and anybody walks around with their pagers strapped to their sides. Towns spend taxpayer dollars making sure that; "those that should have them, did have them".

Add another 10 years and cell phones are a part of our lives. We not only have voice messages, but we also have text messages too. Most progressive towns realize this. They also realize that many of their volunteer firefighters no longer work in the local mills or on the family farm. At least in the area I live that is the case. Many of the local mills that employed hundreds of people, including many volunteer firefighters, have been vacant for years. Many of those mills have been torn down or burned down decades ago. Many people now must make a longer commute to work in order to make ends meet. They no longer work in the town they protect.

Another important side issue regarding the use of these fire station sirens that should be considered. Try to get parts to repair these fire station sirens. In one local department the house siren broke down. After approximately one week of operating WITHOUT that station siren due to a malfunction, everything worked out just fine. Nobody missed a call because the Fire Station siren was NOT working. But like so many others, many of the members still felt it was necessary to have that Fire Station siren, so it was fixed. Yes, back in business, even though no call went unanswered during that time.

Of course as luck would have it, guess what ? That Fire Station siren broke down AGAIN. Another wait to get it fixed and order those special parts, DOWN SHE GOES........and still not working. The department has once again been FORCED not to use that siren. All those other means of notifying its members are working out just fine. Those pagers, scanners, and cell phones are apparently doing a great job and the citizens are sleeping much better as well. The nearby local grammar school and library are now quiet during their normal hours too. People happy about that also.

Using a siren on a piece of fire apparatus is required to get through traffic and to alert on the road drivers. In that case, it is a necessity. And of course with good judgment, as a mature adult, while operating an emergency vehicle in the streets during those night time hours, use of a siren can be much less with less traffic.

During the 1990s, I worked as a part time 911 dispatcher for a small town. That policy THEN was fire station siren ONLY during the daylight hours. It came about because citizens complained about the loud, unnecessary noise during the night time hours. Did those citizens hate the fire department ? No they didn't. Did the calls still get answered and did they depend on that fire department ? Yes they did. They just wanted to get the well deserved rest they are entitled to. Of course today, that dispatch center NO LONGER uses those station sirens any more. THEY NEVER MISS A CALL EITHER.

Interesting how some people would be the first to say: "it is time to move forward and go to the latest digital radio systems". Yet they would be the first to try to defend an antiquated system using a fire station house siren to notify the members. I'm sure most citizens don't really care how many times their fire department goes on a calls. They only really care when THEY call 911 and that enough help arrives in a short time.

Finally, if I may, let me give a "Big Shout Out" to a couple of guys here from another web site where we had this same discussion a year or so ago.

 

[mule1075]

Still in use in almost all of my surrounding counties. Still very useful in my opinion.

Sent from my Z750C using Tapatalk

 

[Darkstar350]

Here they are tested 2 times a day - at 12 noon and 6pm for one "cycle"

For calls they are activated not usually before Noon or after 6pm but for 4 cycles
Some departments use a loud boat horn of sorts

My opinion - not nessesary in this day and age however the existing air raid sirens/horns should be maintained "just in case" but only should be tested once or twice a week on say - Fire Dept. training/meeting days...

 

[Adamwalsh627]

Use of fire station sirens

If people reading this can contribute which towns in the state actually use their sirens and what the protocol is and if they actually work? A lot of towns activate them but they are broken.

 

[buddrousa]

Storm Warning only now every Wednesday 12 noon 5 second growl test.
1st Saturday of the month 45 second full test.

 

[Darkstar350]

Nassau County, NY - Various towns/departments still utilize their air raid sirens/horns for dispatch calls as well as daily tests - both mainly during daylight hours

One town in particular - Mineola - has a very powerful air raid siren that can be heard within several surrounding towns "The Thunderbolt" i think is the name of it

 

[jeatock]

My two cents

For agency initial notification:
-our county consolidated 911PSAP (Pike County, Illinois) creates a CAD incident, which automatically flows into a text message addressed to the agency responders,
-AND the same text message automatically flows to an application provider which 'pushes' complete incident information to a smart phone app,
-AND the dispatcher sends analog radio paging signals and voice information to the agency's local analog transmitter, which sets off traditional pagers,
-AND a central high-power radio automatically repeats all paging signals and voice from a second location after a fifteen second delay, which sets off most pagers again, and can be heard by any radio county-wide (which gives excellent situation awareness to possible mutual aid providers),
-AND if the agency doesn't respond after one minute the whole process is repeated,
-AND if the initial agency doesn't respond after two minutes automatic mutual aid is notified the same way,
-AND the paging channel is only used for initial paging; we have two interchangeable repeated command/control channels for response and coordination,
-AND every radio system is independent from telephone and utility failure, and has a redundant backup.

All departments issue traditional pagers (or radios with paging capability). I carry a pager and my smart phone, plus (an occupational hazard) I have live radio audio running 24/7. My pager and smart phone app both require that I shut them up, lest they keep going off for hours. If I miss a page, it is probably intentional.

With all of that in place, we are fairly confident that agencies are going to get the word that they need to put their boots on, and can coordinate response on a county-wide basis.

ISO likes it just fine. My rural volunteer department is a "4", and could be a "3" with paid staff and bigger water mains.

None of the ten fire agencies in my rural county run station sirens for fire alerts. Reasons:
-Last time we checked, this is 2015. There are better methods available, and all of them carry more information than 'Y'all come quick!". Station sirens have gone the way of pagers going off with every wrong number and telemarketer call to the station, and fire bar phones ringing at the diners and gas stations.
-All sirens can still be set off locally or by the 911PSAP; the extra rope for our belt-and-suspenders backup plan.
-Only half (if that) of responders live/work where the siren can be heard, and even fewer can hear it inside a modern home with the dishwasher or TV running. I live more than two miles from my station, so that isn't happening.
-Sirens do a fine job of alerting Robby Rubberneck (less of an argument now that Robby has a scanner).
-Sirens carry little useful information for responders. There is no difference between a siren alerting for a major fire mutual aid call and a siren alerting for a minor response to an incident one block from your home. The latter certainty doesn't warrant a blue-light-special speed run to the station.
-Not all sirens operate without public utility power.
-Sirens are more suited for mass public warnings, and use as a fire notification is confusing to the public.

All but two departments have upgraded the station siren to weather warning devices. The 911PSAP can active them remotely one by one, or by region. Full test every Tuesday at 11AM. All year. A couple "bump" every day at noon. We don't want to wait a month to find out we have a failure.

As far as sirens confusing the public: do you know the different meanings of a 1-minute wail, a 5-minute wail and a 3-minute solid? Do you think your grandmother does? Wouldn't it be easier if ANY siren meant that you should head to the basement, or at least stick your head out of your hole to see if the sky is falling?

And as far as apparatus sirens go, use common sense. Going to wash the roadway at an accident scene doesn't warrant sirens, and probably not even en-route lights. But if I'm driving to a time-sensitive incident and pose a hazard to the public or myself, it's going to get real loud even after (almost) stopping at every red light and sign. I'm not going to create another incident. Sorry about the noise. Go back to sleep. Get over it.

 

[Kitn1mcc]

Lets see here in Middlesex county and New London county they still get well used. I think essex is still using there old horns. Let me put it this way it does get your attention. Some of the guys around here may not have a radio or phone on them when there out in the yard or working. hear the siren grab the radio

 

[dcr_inc]

Sirens don't let them pick and choose calls like pagers do !! The siren tells your community that you are spending their tax dollars to save someones life or property.. When you go looking for donations, it helps speak to your worth by the amount of times the community is aware of your calls for service..

 

[izzyj4]

My city we have our diaphones and siren hooked up to our Gamewell system. We also have reels and tape reels in the firehouses. And unfortunately it is going by the wayside.

For us there was a diaphone on one of the factories downtown north end, one that was destroyed and never replaced on the old Latex Foam factory on Main Street and a siren at Co. 5 on the Hilltop. Originally the horns "tapped out" the box number four times (with about a 2 second pause in between each "round"). It eventually went down to outside boxes rang four times while if a 911 was received, the box activate from the controller would sound three rounds. Now it is only sounded for outside boxes and the single test round at 11:30 am and 6 pm.

 

[sefrischling]

East Lyme has the town wide siren, it sounds every time an inmate is missing from the York Correctional Facility. One day a month the siren goes off, followed by the town wide PA announcing this is a test ... otherwise pretty much everyone in town knows what it means when the siren goes off, an inmate is unaccounted for.

I heard the siren only one other time, during Hurricane Irene with a PA alert to shelter in place.