Utah County UHF and UCAN

[NN2B]

Wednesday’s snowstorm brings up a question on UHF freqs in Utah County. I traveled from Alpine to Spanish Fork in the middle of Wednesday’s storm (from 5-7 p.m.). I monitored the Utah County Sheriff’s Office-North freq of 154.86 on my Yaseu ham rig the entire trip. There was often some coordination needed between the SO and the UHP, but I'm not sure how they communicated with each other.

How does the UCAN system fit into the Sheriff’s band plans – do they use UCAN and VHF simultaneously? In the storm we had Wednesday that I can’t imagine trying to communicate with UHP on UCAN while the SO is still on VHF. Any insights?

 

[Junior1970]

154.860 is patched to UCAN TG 46112. S.O. has no VHF radios in their vehicles, and haven't for awhile according to a neighbor of mine who is a deputy. The UHP still has VHF radios in their cars however. The 800's have the UHP TG programmed in and vice versa with the UHP. The whole reason behind UCAN is connectivity between different agencies such as was Wednesday night. Same with UtCo using the old Ops TGs now for fire. PD has had the Ops channels for some time and with fire now using them they can now communicate with each other in a situation such as this.

I for one was stranded in Saratoga Springs for all the roads were closed for a time and basically all I could do was sit in my truck and monitor the public safety goings on most of the evening. In spite of all the drama there and up on SR 92 in Highland/Lehi/Alpine area everything sounded pretty well organized compared to similar situations in previous years.

 

[NN2B]

So what we hear on VHF 154.86 is just piped in over from the UCAN system, right?

You're right, it was pretty organized; there was a lot going on but it seemed to go relatively smooth. I drove south from Alpine at 5:00 past the LDS temple in AF at walking speeds, and there were white-out times when the wind whipped up the snow and I couldn't see anything but white. There were several cars off the road - not because of speed but because they just lost visibility for a moment and off the road they went.

Well, I guess it's time for me to get a trunk-tracking scanner, or else be left behind listening to piped-in UCAN stuff on VHF. And that may end soon too, I suppose.

 

[qlajlu]

First, let me say:

Welcome to the Utah forum of RR

w2lhm!​

I see that you joined sometime last month, but this is your first posting(s). I am glad you joined us and I hope you continue to monitor this board giving us the benefit of your input.

It is standard procedure for "newbies" to introduce themselves with some background such as what type of equipment they run, some tell us what they do for a living, and we like to know what your experience is in the invisible world of capturing radio signals. Obviously you have approached the scanning hobby a slight bit differently than most of us since most of us use a regular commercially built scanner.

Again, welcome w2lhm! Visit often and post your views, comments, and questions.

 

[NN2B]

No problem, and thank you for the welcome into the forum.

I started in scanning in the late 1970’s when I was at BYU with a crystal controlled Radio Shack scanner – remember those things…$5 a crystal? I upgraded to a programmable handheld in the early 80’s. In about 1983 or 84 BYU went to a trunked system – I still have the article in the school newspaper about that – but with trunking I lost the ability to monitor BYU PD.

A bit later I moved to Bountiful and over the next few years logged in all the Davis County frequencies. I worked in photography and occasionally sold some shots to the papers, but it was more for fun - it barely covered film processing.

In 1991 I got my ham ticket, and in 2000 moved to southern Utah county. I’ve been without a trunk-tracking scanner all these years . . . in favor of ham gear. I’ve been trying to build up my database of freqs in my area but it’s kind of futile when you can’t follow talkgroups with an old scanner.

Right now I have an old (real old) PRO-34, PRO-43, and Icom IC-R1 all-band receiver, and ham gear consisting of an Icom IC-24AT handheld transceiver, a Yaesu FT-7800R 2m/70cm transceiver., and Yaesu FT-857D all-band ham transceiver. I work in graphic design and photography for a company in Alpine.

 

[Utah_Viper]

Welcome, W2LHM. This group has been getting more and more active over the last year. We have many projects going on and welcome additional support always. If you get the chance to come to a in-person meeting its a great chance to meet the others. WE have one tomorrow in Magna (details in the February Meeting thread) Again welcome aboard.

 

[qlajlu]

As you have probably noticed, this group tends to be more oriented to the scanner hobby, but there are a bunch of HAM licenses represented too. You are among friends here so sit down, roll up your sleeves and get involved. If you have questions or comments about the HAM hobby, go ahead and make a post or start a new thread.

As you alluded to in one of your posts above, we don't know how much longer we will be able to use the scanners we have because of the rebanding thing. That is not to say that you can't go to a new breed or model that will be able to pick up the changes when they happen, or for right now, you could pick up a Trunk-Tracking scanner relatively cheaply that would allow you to "get in the groove."

We have many unidentified talk groups in your area of the world that we would love to get identified and submitted to the RR Database. All help in this endeavor is welcomed and appreciated. It is a tedious process.

Just out of curiosity, w2lhm, what brought you to RadioReference.com and this forum in particular?

 

[NN2B]

I just finished mounting one of my ham radios in my Subaru Outback, and figured I ought to program in the public safety freqs too. I wanted to see if the ones I had were the latest, and I found Radioreference just by searching for Utah scanner frequencies on the net. This seems to be a very active and up-to-date site. So I signed up.

I agree there's a lot of work in keeping track of things; I want to contribute, but it may be a while before I come across anything you guys haven't already picked up.

Thanks for the welcome.

 

[qlajlu]

Well, don't sell yourself short, w2lhm. We don't have a lot of "ears" in your part of the state and so you might be surprised what you can help us with. It would be better if you could follow a TRS (Trunked Radio System) but not necessarily required as long as there is still VHF/UHF inputs to the system. Once UCAN has better trunking coverage in place in the Utah County area, particularly the southern part of the county, I'm pretty sure you will want to be on a trunk-tracking scanner. We want to identify all of the different talk groups (TGs) because each one is a separate entity and UCAN, in its infinite wisdom, just won't tell us outright, so we play a funny game of "hide and seek."

Let me ask if you understand what trunking is. It is probably a pretty good bet that you do since you have a pretty good exposure to radios.

 

[gldavis]

I agree there's a lot of work in keeping track of things; I want to contribute, but it may be a while before I come across anything you guys haven't already picked up.

Your welcome here with whatever you can bring. If you spend some time looking/searching thru the forum you will see that we have quite a few Conventional Freqs. UCAN is a big part of the radio environment int he Northern part of the state, but there is alot of non-trunked stuff floating out there. We are trying to cover it all. A big tasking, and the more that help, the better.

 

[NN2B]

From what I understand, trunking is the computerized control of a set of radio frequencies, enabling different groups of users to use the same set of frequencies without stepping all over each other. A specific group of users is a talkgroup, right?

Right now I have, for example, the entire set of BYU frequencies programmed in to a scan bank on my Yaesu FT7800. Sometimes the comms come fast enough that the follow-up call is on the same freq as the previous one, which helps make it easy to follow. But sometimes not. More usually not.

Right now I’m still working on isolating the frequencies around the Woodland Hills/Spanish Fork/Salem/Payson area where I live. I have one listed for our city of Woodland Hills (151.625), but I never hear anything on it. At least, nothing that’s relevant to Woodland Hills.

 

[gldavis]

151.625 is a "Dot Freq.". Red Dot to be exact. It is one of the Common Business use freqs. You will find a lot of different users on these freqs. Some are even liscensed.

 

[qlajlu]

151.625 is a "Dot Freq.". Red Dot to be exact. It is one of the Common Business use freqs. You will find a lot of different users on these freqs. Some are even liscensed.

Okay, now I am going to show my ignorance...again. What, exactly is a "Red Dot" frequency? I know what a Red Dot rifle scope is, but not a Red Dot frequency.

 

[gldavis]

There are some "common" freqs that are used for generic business use. Follow the link to see a list of them. The Business radios that are sold over the counter normally will have one or more of these allready programmed in them. You will hear a wide assortment of users on these freqs.

http://wiki.radioreference.com/index.php/Common_Itinerant_and_Business

 

[qlajlu]

Thanks, Gary. I honestly learn something new on this board almost every day...and my school teachers didn't hold out much hope for me.

 

[theaton]

Business radios

Yeah, those "color-coded" business frequencies are a pain to follow. Some are licensed but most are not. I don't know if/how the FCC expects them to be licensed when those frequencies are available on radios sold at stores like Target and Cabellas. Another problem we face in identifying businesses is repeater systems that are owned by a commercial radio company then "subcontracted" out to various users. They can be licensed to the radio company, the user company, or both. Sometimes several businesses use repeaters on the same frequencies but with different tones, and the FCC listings don't help in distinguishing them. You have to do a lot of listening with a tone-decoding scanner. OTOH that's what scanning is all about, eh? :wink:

-Tim

 

[Utah_Viper]

From what I understand, trunking is the computerized control of a set of radio frequencies, enabling different groups of users to use the same set of frequencies without stepping all over each other. A specific group of users is a talkgroup, right?

Right now I have, for example, the entire set of BYU frequencies programmed in to a scan bank on my Yaesu FT7800. Sometimes the comms come fast enough that the follow-up call is on the same freq as the previous one, which helps make it easy to follow. But sometimes not. More usually not.

Right now I’m still working on isolating the frequencies around the Woodland Hills/Spanish Fork/Salem/Payson area where I live. I have one listed for our city of Woodland Hills (151.625), but I never hear anything on it. At least, nothing that’s relevant to Woodland Hills.

That's a good idea of what Trunking is. It can get very complex. You really need to invest in a trunk scanner though to follow it well

 

[theaton]

UCAN-Conventional links

154.860 is patched to UCAN TG 46112. S.O. has no VHF radios in their vehicles, and haven't for awhile according to a neighbor of mine who is a deputy. The UHP still has VHF radios in their cars however. The 800's have the UHP TG programmed in and vice versa with the UHP. The whole reason behind UCAN is connectivity between different agencies such as was Wednesday night. Same with UtCo using the old Ops TGs now for fire. PD has had the Ops channels for some time and with fire now using them they can now communicate with each other in a situation such as this.

Has anyone kept a list of patches between UCAN TGs and conventional frequencies? I think that would be a useful addition to the DB. A few are listed here and there, but it would be nice to have a systematic list. If anyone has confirmed such links I will gladly add them to the DB (in the Description field of the TG & Frequency, as with links between conventional repeaters).

-Tim