• Effective immediately we will be deleting, without notice, any negative threads or posts that deal with the use of encryption and streaming of scanner audio.

    We've noticed a huge increase in rants and negative posts that revolve around agencies going to encryption due to the broadcasting of scanner audio on the internet. It's now worn out and continues to be the same recycled rants. These rants hijack the threads and derail the conversation. They no longer have a place anywhere on this forum other than in the designated threads in the Rants forum in the Tavern.

    If you violate these guidelines your post will be deleted without notice and an infraction will be issued. We are not against discussion of this issue. You just need to do it in the right place. For example:
    https://forums.radioreference.com/rants/224104-official-thread-live-audio-feeds-scanners-wait-encryption.html

Verizon, AT&T emerge as big winners of 700 MHz auction

Status
Not open for further replies.

Thunderbolt

Global Database Administrator
Moderator
Joined
Dec 23, 2001
Messages
6,834
Location
Ann Arbor, Michigan
CHICAGO -- U.S. wireless giants Verizon Wireless and AT&T Mobility bought the most spectrum and spent the most money on airwaves in the recently completed 700 MHz auction, the FCC reported yesterday as part of the first disclosures regarding the bidding process.

In addition, the FCC declared it would not accept the lone bid on the D Block—the 10 MHz swath that was to be paired with 10 MHz of public-safety spectrum to provide the foundation of a nationwide broadband wireless network for public safety—and will “consider all options” for those frequencies.

Most industry observers expected Verizon and AT&T to lead the bidding, but the two leading U.S. wireless carriers dominated the auction, accounting for $16.0 billion of the $19.5 billion in high bids. Verizon committed $9.363 billion for its licenses, including the 22 MHz C Block across the continental United States. AT&T Mobility bid $6.636 billion for its licenses, which featured swaths in the B Block that are expected to complement the company’s $2.5 billion pre-auction purchase of nearby spectrum from Aloha Partners.

Almost half of the high-bid total was generated through the auction of the B Block.
Frontier Wireless—owned by satellite TV firm Echostar—outbid Qualcomm for most licenses in the E Block. Mobile wireless consultant Andrew Seybold said he expected Qualcomm to bid aggressively to complement the company’s existing spectrum holdings used for its MediaFLO mobile-video-broadcast application.

“What surprised me was that Echostar got some of the E Block,” Seybold said. “I thought Qualcomm was going to get it all for their MediaFLO.”

Also surprising was the amount of money bid on the 12 MHz B Block, which generated $9.144 billion—almost half of the high bids for the entire auction. As a point of comparison, the A Block—another 12 MHz swath that featured licenses with larger geographic territories than the B Block—attracted $3.961 billion in high bids, or less than half of the amount generated by the B Block.

“The A Block is adjacent to the spectrum that Echostar and [Qualcomm] are using for one-way [video applications],” Seybold said. “There is a concern, I think, about interference.

“Also, since the B Block licenses are smaller geographic areas, I think the bidding was more intense between AT&T, Verizon and some of the second-, third- and fourth-tier companies. … There were so many licenses that this was seen as the only band that a new regional player could be borne in or a regional player like Leap Wireless could expand in.”

Meanwhile, the FCC identified Qualcomm as the lone bidder on the D Block, having submitted a $472 million first-round offering. Seybold said he does not believe Qualcomm wanted the spectrum at that price but saw the D Block as a good place to use bidding credits to meet the FCC’s activity requirements to participate in the auction.

“I don’t think they were serious about bidding on the D Block,” Seybold said. “I think they were parking their money.”

Whatever the strategy, Qualcomm will not gain rights to the D Block through this auction, as the FCC yesterday said it would not award the swath based on the $472 million bid—an amount well below the FCC’s $1.3 billion reserve price for the spectrum.

“Because the aggregate reserve price for the D Block was not met, there is no winning bidder for that license,” the FCC stated in an order regarding the matter. “Given that the reserve price was met for all other blocks, we find it is in the public interest to provide additional time to consider all options with respect to the D Block spectrum.”
In prepared statements, FCC Commissioner Jonathan Adelstein described the inability to attract an acceptable D Block bid as “nothing less than a tragedy,” calling for a “top-to-bottom review of what went wrong, so we can make it work in the next round.”

Fellow Democratic Commissioner Michael Copps said the lack of a nationwide, interoperable broadband network for public safety is a “travesty” and that establishing such communication is “quite literally a matter of life and death” for first responders and the citizenry it protects.

Seybold said he believes the FCC should abandon the notion of a single operator building out the entire network—“that’s the worst thing that could happen,” he said. Instead, the FCC should consider plans that would allow multiple carriers to share in the buildout to a given standard or possibly mandate carriers to build out a portion of the network under the supervision of an independent integrator that would bid for the D Block spectrum.
“It gets built faster, it gets built cheaper, public safety is up and running faster, and we cover rural America,” Seybold said.

Potential roadblocks to such a proposal include determining which carriers would deploy which portions of the network and which would be able to use it under different scenarios, Seybold said. In addition, allocating monetary value to shared spectrum would be difficult for financial officers, but such obstacles can be overcome, he said.

“It would be difficult—I’m not saying this would be easy,” Seybold said. “People look at me and say, ‘You’re nuts. It’s never going to happen.’ I say, ‘Pay me half a million dollars per year, and I’ll make it happen.’”

http://mrtmag.com/policy_and_law/news/verizon-att-auction-0321/
 

azraphale

Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2007
Messages
48
Location
Marlboro, NY
Does this mean what I think it means: that coast to coast, all public safety comms will suddenly be cellular telephone traffic and thus illegal to monitor? How will the media get the news without police and fire scanners? And more to the point, how will there be any public oversight of law enforcement behavior if they cannot be legally monitored by anyone?

I see the need for some kind of secure system in place in case of a terrist attack, but anythingh short of that should not be concealed behind a legal veil...
 

GTO_04

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Mar 10, 2004
Messages
1,775
azraphale said:
Does this mean what I think it means: that coast to coast, all public safety comms will suddenly be cellular telephone traffic and thus illegal to monitor? How will the media get the news without police and fire scanners? And more to the point, how will there be any public oversight of law enforcement behavior if they cannot be legally monitored by anyone?

I see the need for some kind of secure system in place in case of a terrist attack, but anythingh short of that should not be concealed behind a legal veil...
You are probably correct. And if public safety has to rely on cell phone type networks, they are in big trouble. If you think dropouts and deadspots are bad now, just wait until they implement something like that!

And no there will be no public oversight.

GTO_04
 

mikepdx

Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2002
Messages
818
Location
Corbett, OR USA
azraphale said:
Does this mean what I think it means: that coast to coast, all public safety comms will suddenly be cellular telephone traffic and thus illegal to monitor? How will the media get the news without police and fire scanners?
How will the media get the news?
They'll actually have to WORK to find it, rather than
have select news spoon fed to them by the government.
 

n3on

Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2008
Messages
1
Okay..

I have a question. Why does the FCC 'own' these frequencies. I know they are gods because they have that special letter F in their acronym but I mean come on. They just were all of a sudden created and they instantly own a bunch of invisible frequencies. Where does this money go? I mean it's 100% profit, 19 billion dollars, going where? This sh*t is absolutely ridiculous. Sorry, my hysterical rant is over. I just wish I could decide to own something that no one should be allowed to own, like color. And then auction of spectrum's of light. I bet I could get at least 20 billion out of blue alone.
 

iMONITOR

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Sep 20, 2006
Messages
6,601
Location
MACOMB, MI.
azraphale said:
Does this mean what I think it means: that coast to coast, all public safety comms will suddenly be cellular telephone traffic and thus illegal to monitor?

I don't think it will involve public safety in any way. Why would it?
 

AZScanner

Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2002
Messages
3,352
Location
Somewhere in this room. Right now, you're very col
GreatLakes said:
I don't think it will involve public safety in any way. Why would it?
I agree with GreatLakes - people need to put the tinfoil hats away and think rationally. When I read the article I read it to say that no one stepped up with a real bid to build out a national broadband wireless network adjacent to the 700MHz voice band allocated to public safety, and the article goes on to quote someone else that says it would be better to let more than one company build it and the FCC should reauction it accordingly.

Now that could be 100% BS - we all know that the press knows as much about radio spectrum as a pig knows about pattycake, but that's what the article is saying. I certainly don't read (or foresee) all public safety comms going cellular based - that would be stupid, since key pieces of cellular network infrastructure are already a prime terrorist target. The bid in question was for a totally separate system.

EDIT: One more thing - I'm all for the cellular companies having to pony up serious cash to use these frequencies. Need I remind anyone that the whole reason Public Safety is moving to 700 megs is because of interference caused by Nextel and other cellular companies, and that they fought rebanding tooth and nail because not because they weren't causing problems on the 800 band, but because they simply didn't want to have to pay for it? Screw 'em - I'm glad to see the FCC pocketing a few billion from them. Bout damn time!

-AZ
 
Last edited:

rescuecomm

Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2005
Messages
961
Location
Travelers Rest, SC
Big bills, bad service?

Interesting comment about cell service. Seems like it has become part of today's culture all over the world. Can people do without it now, since it is a service just like cable TV/Sat TV, fast internet?

I guess the FCC found out just how much big companies think of public safety communications. No big bucks to be made, then the cellphone companies aren't getting in it. I think that the statewide build out of 800mhz systems makes more sense in the long run even though it is expensive too.

Bob
 

zz0468

Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2007
Messages
5,957
Location
175 DME, HEC 358° Radial
I haven't been paying as much attention to the 700 MHz auction debacle as I would have a few years ago. It's getting increasingly hard to care when the field is dominated by attorneys, accountants, and politicians. I liked it better when the cops and firemen told the engineers what they wanted, and then we went out and built it.

After 30+ years in public safety communications, I have developed a lot of contacts in a lot of agencies over the years. I don't know of any one of them that looks favorably upon a "nationwide interoperability network" such as what's proposed. The perceived need for this has been blown way out of proportion by people who don't have a clue. What surprises me most is that the cellular broadband build out looks as if it's going to be adjacent to public safety allocations. A repeat of the Nextel problem that is driving rebanding?
 

poltergeisty

Deep Thinker
Joined
May 7, 2004
Messages
3,806
Location
RLG, Fly heading 053, intercept 315 DVV
A repeat exactly! My same thoughts.

Maybe this so called "nationwide interoperability" could be sat based? :lol: (We are talking from department to department, not car, right? Then a patch comes in mind)

In prepared statements, FCC Commissioner Jonathan Adelstein described the inability to attract an acceptable D Block bid as “nothing less than a tragedy,” calling for a “top-to-bottom review of what went wrong, so we can make it work in the next round.”
Whatever the strategy, Qualcomm will not gain rights to the D Block through this auction, as the FCC yesterday said it would not award the swath based on the $472 million bid—an amount well below the FCC’s $1.3 billion reserve price for the spectrum.
What greedy company wants to fork over all that cash? :lol: The reserve plus the building of infrastructure? Come on FCC! :roll:


Because the aggregate reserve price for the D Block was not met, there is no winning bidder for that license,” the FCC stated in an order regarding the matter. “Given that the reserve price was met for all other blocks, we find it is in the public interest to provide additional time to consider all options with respect to the D Block spectrum.”
Yes, it is in my interest . :)
Consider a joint sat option.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top