• To anyone looking to acquire commercial radio programming software:

    Please do not make requests for copies of radio programming software which is sold (or was sold) by the manufacturer for any monetary value. All requests will be deleted and a forum infraction issued. Making a request such as this is attempting to engage in software piracy and this forum cannot be involved or associated with this activity. The same goes for any private transaction via Private Message. Even if you attempt to engage in this activity in PM's we will still enforce the forum rules. Your PM's are not private and the administration has the right to read them if there's a hint to criminal activity.

    If you are having trouble legally obtaining software please state so. We do not want any hurt feelings when your vague post is mistaken for a free request. It is YOUR responsibility to properly word your request.

    To obtain Motorola software see the Sticky in the Motorola forum.

    The various other vendors often permit their dealers to sell the software online (i.e., Kenwood). Please use Google or some other search engine to find a dealer that sells the software. Typically each series or individual radio requires its own software package. Often the Kenwood software is less than $100 so don't be a cheapskate; just purchase it.

    For M/A Com/Harris/GE, etc: there are two software packages that program all current and past radios. One package is for conventional programming and the other for trunked programming. The trunked package is in upwards of $2,500. The conventional package is more reasonable though is still several hundred dollars. The benefit is you do not need multiple versions for each radio (unlike Motorola).

    This is a large and very visible forum. We cannot jeopardize the ability to provide the RadioReference services by allowing this activity to occur. Please respect this.

Want to build a GMRS repeater

Status
Not open for further replies.

Josh380

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Mar 29, 2015
Messages
326
Location
Orange County, CA
I want to build a repeater. I've seen a few being sold on ebay every now and then that are made out of two mobile radios, and I'm drawn to the concept.

What would be the best way to accomplish this in terms of equipment cost, (excld. feedline, antenna, duplexer), ease of programming, and availability of wiring harnesses and the like?
 

mmckenna

I ♥ Ø
Joined
Jul 27, 2005
Messages
26,150
Location
United States
You'd need two mobile radios, a controller, duplexer, power supply, feed line and antenna.

Trouble is, mobile radios don't make good high duty cycle transmitters. You'd need to turn the power down considerably to get them to not overheat, then the issue with them is some mobiles will become unstable if turned down to far.

You'll need a controller to work between the receiver radio and the transmitter radio. You may want it to send out periodic CW id (call sign). You want it to be able to shut the system down if it gets stuck in transmit mode. Most mobiles have a time out timer that can handle this.
Based on your location, you'd really want some way of being able to remotely shut it down. It's possible that someone can figure out your CTCSS or DCS squelch and cause issues.

Duplexer will be needed to combine the receiver and transmitter into one antenna. Trying to use separate antennas requires a lot of separation, more coax, additional antenna, etc.
Don't use "mobile" duplexers if you want this to work well. Use duplexers designed for the job. These may be expensive, but cutting corners here will result in poor performance. Get them professionally tuned for your frequency pair. This isn't something you can "eyeball" or guess at. It requires specific test equipment.

You'll need a good 12 volt power supply. Figure on battery backup if you want this to work when the power is out.

You need good coax. 1/2" heliax minimum, maybe bigger if your cable run is long.

Antennas. Without a good antenna all the money invested able will be wasted. You need a good antenna mounted up high and in the clear.

And, as they say, location, location, location. Without this repeater mounted in the right location, it's not going to do much good.

The repeater builder site is a good resource. Lots to be learned there. Just remember, don't cut corners if you want it to work well.

Icom mobiles are plentiful and cheap. Programming is easy. You can turn them down to low power (4 or 5 watts) and get some good life out of them. If you want more power, it would be a good idea to use a stand alone RF amplifier designed for repeater use. This will reduce strain on the transmitter and let the power amp put in the hard work.
Kenwoods are easy to find and programming software/cables are cheap.
Motorola is a good option. A couple of CDM-750's would be a good option, but programming software is expensive.
You could find a couple of older GM-300's and use those. Just make sure you get the lower power versions.

For the Motorola's, there is the RICK controller. There are some other interconnect cables you can find on e-Bay also.
For the Kenwood and Icom's there are different controllers available on line.

Adding a cooling fan to the transmitter can help a bit with longevity.
 
Last edited:

Josh380

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Mar 29, 2015
Messages
326
Location
Orange County, CA
Well, I have two Kenwood Tk-840's on their way to me, but it seems that the wiring harnesses to make that happen are kinda hard to find. I've got a 13.8v 12a surge power supply. An antenna more suitable for repeater use can be obtained. And my location is good. About 472ft (according to GPS info). It looks over a good portion of South OC, which is good enough for my purposes.

I've also got a 2 3/4" cpu fan that would literally take off if I power it with the 13v supply, so I've got cooling covered, lol. Really loud though.

If I were able to get the Kenwood's to work I'd just need to know what kind of controller to use.
 

sfd119

Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2009
Messages
1,763
Well, I have two Kenwood Tk-840's on their way to me, but it seems that the wiring harnesses to make that happen are kinda hard to find. I've got a 13.8v 12a surge power supply. An antenna more suitable for repeater use can be obtained. And my location is good. About 472ft (according to GPS info). It looks over a good portion of South OC, which is good enough for my purposes.

None of that matters unless you've got a duplexer. Don't cheap out on it either.
 

RFI-EMI-GUY

Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2013
Messages
7,630
"I've got a 13.8v 12a surge power supply"

You may want to look into the power supply a bit more. A surge rated power supply may not deliver enough current for repeater operation.
 

KD8DVR

Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2004
Messages
1,347
Location
Columbus, Ohio
Ok. A ton of stuff to look through. I was hoping for a more straightforward answer....

A repeater is a complicated communications system. Everything must fall into place properly for it to work correctly.

Such a project is not for those technically inexperienced. They are also costly to do correctly.
 

RFI-EMI-GUY

Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2013
Messages
7,630
The transmitter must be FCC type accepted or certified for GMRS base station use.

(b) Each GMRS transmitter for mo-
bile station, small base station and
control station operation must be
maintained within a frequency toler-
ance of 0.0005%. Each GMRS trans-
mitter for base station (except small
base), mobile relay station or fixed sta-
tion operation must be maintained
within a frequency tolerance of
0.00025%

As far as I can tell the only distinction is in "maintaining" frequency tolerance of 0.00025%.
 

RFI-EMI-GUY

Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2013
Messages
7,630
A repeater is a complicated communications system. Everything must fall into place properly for it to work correctly.

Such a project is not for those technically inexperienced. They are also costly to do correctly.

I think we can all agree that the "Repeater Builder" site provides a good basis for anyone building their first repeater. I have built a few, my first was dodgy, the rest pretty good. You really don't need much of an investment in test equipment or control hardware these days.

The Repeater Builder's Technical Information Page™

The Repeater-Builder's Parts List and Check List
 

Evgeni

Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2014
Messages
73
One of the things to do would be get a mobile to be the transmitt radio with VOX and a time out timer, even one that could limit the amount of transmitts.

An adapter that can adapt the radio's microphone jack to 3.5mm if it doesn't have one already. A mp3 player on a loop that plays the callsign.

And a Baofeng UV-5R with the 12 volt dapater as the recieve radio connected to the other radio via 2.5mm to 3.5mm adapter, to a double male wire.

And the mp3 player connected to those with a 3.5mm splitter.

The Baofeng would be set on the repeater's input, and the mobile on the output.

Use seperate TX and RX antennas properly spaced apart.
 

RFI-EMI-GUY

Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2013
Messages
7,630
Although I have not used one of these ID-O-Matic controllers, they are cheap, available as a kit or assembled (e-bay $49)

Ham Radio ID O Matic IV Repeater Controller Fully Asssembled | eBay

http://www.hamgadgets.com/index.php?route=product/download/download&download_id=76

This would be far better than any VOX setup. The hardest part would be locating the COR (Carrier Operated Relay) logic that follows the unmute of the receiver. Most radios you have to either program an external pin to follow this logic signal or bring out a wire from a point on the board.
 

KD8DVR

Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2004
Messages
1,347
Location
Columbus, Ohio
Although I have not used one of these ID-O-Matic controllers, they are cheap, available as a kit or assembled (e-bay $49)

Ham Radio ID O Matic IV Repeater Controller Fully Asssembled | eBay

http://www.hamgadgets.com/index.php?route=product/download/download&download_id=76

This would be far better than any VOX setup. The hardest part would be locating the COR (Carrier Operated Relay) logic that follows the unmute of the receiver. Most radios you have to either program an external pin to follow this logic signal or bring out a wire from a point on the board.

A gmrs repeater is not required to ID. Only the users need to id. That is an unnecessary expense,
 

RFI-EMI-GUY

Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2013
Messages
7,630
A gmrs repeater is not required to ID. Only the users need to id. That is an unnecessary expense,

For the price you get a controller with free CW-ID. And far better than a VOX repeater box.

If repeater owners would ID their repeaters, there would not be all these requests for help tracking down someones latest project repeater that interferes with an existing one.

Then there is this with speech: Cheap in kit form.

NHRC-2.1 Repeater Controller
 

RFI-EMI-GUY

Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2013
Messages
7,630
If I were able to get the Kenwood's to work I'd just need to know what kind of controller to use.

There seems to be a lot of info about those radios on the Internet, but sadly no service manuals. Your first order of business after programming these will be locating the COR (carrier operated relay) point in the radio. Usually this is simply a digital level (1 or 0) that unmutes the receiver audio when both the noise and tone squelch are decode. The busy light won't work, because it toggles on noise squelch alone.

After you figure this out, just about any Ham type repeater controller will work. You don't need one that generates or decodes tone squelch (CTCSS) because your radios can do that task.

Breadboard the repeater radios and controller on the bench and dummy load the transmitter until you sort out the repeater logic, repeat audio levels (equalized input = output deviation and low distortion). Once you have it sounding good on the bench work on what duplexer and double shielded cables you will use (don't skimp) and then package it up. Read up on testing receiver effective sensitivity (duplex). This is more important than anything else.
 

N4GIX

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
May 27, 2015
Messages
2,124
Location
Hot Springs, AR
I don't remember the exact link, but there are some pictures of where to connect to the required points. They are all located on the PCB behind the front panel, and show how one might route the wires out of the radio neatly.
 

N4GIX

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
May 27, 2015
Messages
2,124
Location
Hot Springs, AR
Then there is this with speech: Cheap in kit form.

NHRC-2.1 Repeater Controller
The kit however does not include all the resistors, capacitors, pots, etc. that are required. They include a parts lists from which one is required to source the additional parts.

By the time you order everything required and pay postage, you may as well buy the fully assembled and tested unit. :D
 

KD8DVR

Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2004
Messages
1,347
Location
Columbus, Ohio
For the price you get a controller with free CW-ID. And far better than a VOX repeater box.

If repeater owners would ID their repeaters, there would not be all these requests for help tracking down someones latest project repeater that interferes with an existing one.

Then there is this with speech: Cheap in kit form.

NHRC-2.1 Repeater Controller

OK.. I fully understand.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top